3-3 Point, when does it work

  Difficulty: Beginner   Keywords: MiddleGame, Joseki, Question

This page is in need of attention.


mat: I'd like to know which configurations of black stones allow a 3-3 invasion and which don't. Please continue this list!

Blue Wyvern: Also, could people add the josekis if they know them? Somehow I always screw up invading a knight's move from the star point (hoshi) even though I am sure it is possible to live.

mat I'd like to leave this page as an overview. We can have the josekis linked.

Charles Matthews Beware of expecting answers that are too clear-cut. There may be a ko, and there may also be continuations that are messy, depending on circumstances on the outside.

[Diagram]

White can live

This case is discussed at 3-3 Point Invasion and 4-4 point 3-3 invasion joseki.


[Diagram]

White can live.

How please?


[Diagram]

White should die after a

For this case see 3-3 point invasion query 6.


[Diagram]

No chance for white

This formation is called the "three crows". White has no chance even with some help from outside (white 'a' or 'b').

For this see 4435 enclosure #2.


[Diagram]

3/3 does not work for white

See also How Secure Is The Small Low Enclosure


[Diagram]

?

The 3/3 invasion into the SmallHighEnclosure occurs e.g. in QueriesAboutEnclosureJosekis1. Forseeing whether or not white can live is beyond my knowledge.

Nightvid? White probably can live. I'm thinking that the 3453 enclosure wouldn't be used much if this was also secure, as this obviously has better outside influence.

[Diagram]

Reducing move

antere On the contrary; I don't think it can live. Usually this move is played as a reducing/probe move and sacrificed.

[Diagram]

Gote life

antere There is also a variant where Black tries to prevent white from escaping (for example if he has a big moyo on top), but white can then live in gote (tripod group) if he so wishes.

[Diagram]

Weakness

antere Also, the reason I think the 3453 enclosure is used despite the fact that the 3454 is quite secure is a weakness at 'a'; black needs one more move to prevent white from sliding into the corner if white plays at 'a'. W also has a chance for a fight playing at 'b', which is not the case with 3453.

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.


[Diagram]

White should die, but how?

I know this enclosure is supposed to be immune to a raw invasion without support by White, but how does Black kill?

See 364463Enclosure. --Dieter

mat: a quote from there: "black can kill. But it is difficult"

iopq: Lies! I talked to people from my club about it and we looked at all the variations and it's ko. "black can kill. But it is difficult" it's difficult to kill because black has to win the ko!

See 33PointWhenDoesItWorkContinuation1 for another continuation


[Diagram]

ko?

Scartol: This is covered in 4463 enclosure 3-3 invasion and 4463 enclosure.

mat In summary: black attacks with a and white may live after ko


[Diagram]

White should live, but how?

See 4464 enclosure 3-3 invasion.

See 33PointWhenDoesItWorkContinuation2 for another continuation

mat: In summary (as far as I understood from the links), white lives, but it is not easy.


[Diagram]

?

mat: I guess black can kill. Anyone stronger than me please comment...


[Diagram]

Black can kill, since this includes 4-4 and 5-3 (third stone unnecessary)


[Diagram]

Black can kill, since this includes 4-4 and 5-3 (third stone unnecessary)


[Diagram]

Can Black kill?

iopq: Is 1 the correct move or should it be at 'a?' Also, is it ko or can Black kill?

[Diagram]

Ko is normal

Charles Here this ko can be considered a normal result. If Black wants to prevent this, and kill White, it typically involves playing in a more aggressive way, relying on local strength.


Bill: People might be interested in the [ext] 3-3 Invasion Dictionary by the Korea Baduk Association. The link is to the Japanese version at Amazon Japan. There may be a cheaper version in Korean.


This is a copy of the living page "3-3 Point, when does it work" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2009 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.
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