4-4 point 3-3 invasion, W reverse playing order

    Keywords: Joseki

Table of contents Table of diagrams
Changing the order
W makes a new order
Continuation
Erasure
More accurate?
Joseki
Not Joseki

W plays the reverse order

[Diagram]

Changing the order

Paul Clarke, 2dan: If White tries to reverse the order in the 3-3invasion, Black may be able to answer W3 with B4 in the diagram "Changing the order". This lets Black shut White into the corner (particularly as 'a' is Black's sente). White ends up with a smaller corner than in the joseki, and Black may be in a position to make territory on the left. The disadavantage for Black is the aji of the cut at 'b'.


aLegendWai (9k? KGS): Maybe I get something wrong. How about if W exploits the cut on the upper left weakness earlier (like the following diagram shown)?

[Diagram]

W makes a new order

Paul Clarke: White isn't alive in the corner yet, so cutting with W5 is dubious:

[Diagram]

Continuation


White is dead unless the two Black stones at the top get captured, which looks unlikely.If White uses W2 to live in the corner, Black will play at 2 and capture the cutting stone.

aLegendWai: Thanks so much for your answer.


aLegendWai (9k? KGS): Correct me if wrong.
Why not play B8 at "circle"? The weakness at "c" is less dangerous than "b".
Weakness "b" can be exploited with a presence of ladder breaker (no matter how far they are).
Weakness "c" do not affect by ladder breaker. A play at "c" can be captured by a net. The only exception is when there's a stone which is very near to the weakness that it even breaks the net.

Paul Clarke: Playing at the circled point instead of B8 is certainly possible. My reason for selecting B8 was that the top is probably more important, otherwise Black would initially have blocked the other way. I don't see the net, but even if a White stone at 'c' can be captured, White can use the threat of a play at 'c' to help erase Black's area, e.g.:

[Diagram]

Erasure



However, after the erasure, because of the descent at B2, Black can turn the White corner into a ko. Please see L+2 group with descent.


Different order

[Diagram]

More accurate?

Bill: I think that B2 may be more accurate than an immediate B3. If W3, B4 looks good for Black.



[Diagram]

Joseki

After B2, W3 can transpose to joseki, whether Black responds at B4 or B a.



[Diagram]

Not Joseki

And then there is this variation. Black is thick and White is a low, but not contained.



This is a copy of the living page "4-4 point 3-3 invasion, W reverse playing order" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2009 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.
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