XuanxuanQijing/discussion

Sub-page of XuanxuanQijing
  • Viciousman: Note: 元 is Yuan (Yuán with tones), a Chinese word that means "currency"
    • tderz small correction: 元 yuán is simply the monetary unit used in Mainland China; the meaning currency comes with hanzi as:
    • 币 bě - money / coins / currency
    • 货币 - huňbě currency / monetary / money
    • 金钱 - jīnqián money; currency

John F. No. I'm afraid this is a case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. No correction is needed. Yuan has other important meanings such as the Yuan dynasty, but the most important point here is that it often (and not incorrectly) appeared as a substitute for xuan when it was necessary to avoid xuan for taboo reasons (when it was part of the name of a current emperor). This occurs in many other contexts. It is valuable information as it helps with dating so should not be suppressed.

Misunderstanding?

tderz: John, please believe me that I fully accept your authority on Asian languages.
However here the mentioning of "cost 30,- , ISBN: 7-81051-429-6 " above the initial comment (which I intended to correct a little bit) did set the context (price, not the historical source).

I believed that the sign 元 (after costs) is as self-explanative as $ or pound would be.
In the given context, the meaning Currency would thus be wrong IMO, as it would claim to cover the genus currency, yet here it seems to specify only Chinese currency unit.

Also I found this linguistic entry not so relevant for the description of the book, therefore I moved it to discussion here.

I underwrite your statement a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
I estimate myself a quite realistic person - of course that's at the same time subjective - AND I know my limitations concerning Chinese. (It's limited mainly to the remainders of a 3 months stay with medium level course in China 13 years ago. This means writing: gone; reading: mainly gone; many grammatical expressions mainly gone; I still succeed in communicating orally, e.g. by phone and I hear the language everyday spoken at home. My almost 8 year old son can write more than me, my 6 year old daughter will do so in a year. Still I cherish the thought to find (and use) the time (again) to learn Chinese, become 4 dan (then 5 dan) and so on...)

That's why I usually have usually no incentive to enter quarrels or discussion which deal with egos & opinions (not you) and could end either way. I am still convinced that I was correct in what I wrote about the genus currency 货币 and the species 'Chinese currency unit' 元, no matter how unimportant the question actually is. I never wrote or meant that a certain Chinese character is limited to one meaning only.

Perhaps I should withdraw from making comments or attempts of corrections, inspite that I make them in bona fide attitude.

John F. I'm sorry I didn't realise that currency was the topic, but it's an odd coincidence that the yuan/xuan alternation is commonly discussed re this book, so it's useful to have a note on it anyway. Let's call it serendipity!


Pinyin transcription of book title

Question to JohnF.: Does correct pinyin actually allow for capital starting letters?
In above example - Xuánxuán Qíjīng - XXQJ is certainly a nom propre, thus allowed to have one capital letter.

  • Xuánxuán qíjīng

However, are there firm rules for combining the four syllables with each other and the second capital letter?

  • Xuánxuán Qíjīng
  • Xuánxuánqíjīng etc.etc.

On GoGod XuanxuanQijing#20 you (JohnF.) write the Title as Xuan Xuan QiJing?, thus in 3 words.

After all these are not established expressions, hence could it also be interpreted as one concept defined by all4 syllables together?
I myself prefer of course - due to my Western background the split-up into smaller units comprising two capital letters (as in the CJK box above).

This and JohnF.'s possible reply could afterwards be moved to Pinyin.

John F. I'm no expert on any of the pinyins, though I have dealt with someone who was and she took them very seriously - not surprisingly since it had to do with maps (e.g. do you write Jinan or Ji-nan or Jin'an - I can't remember the right answer). I just make it up as I go along. I'm afraid, and I also confess to finding it a bit precious when people add the tones (what does this add for someone who knows no Chinese, and the marks often don't actually present the real pronunciation anyway because of tone sandhi etc) Fine in a dictionary, but not in ordinary text.

As to this particular case, I suspect a Chinese person would right it all as one word, for reasons of prosody (and probably also under the official rules for word splitting in pinyinised Chinese, though I know of no-one in the west who uses these - but capitals are definitely allowed). We, however, are used to word splitting under different concepts, and I would be inclined to say that it would normally be best as two words. Xuanxuan is not really a word but keeping it intact is perhaps a way of underlining that it is a quotation. Qijing is definitely classable as a word, even if it only applies to a very few books. A jing is a classic in the sense that it provides the warp (as the character shows) and any commentaries, revisions, summaries are seen as the weft so as to produce a complete fabric. This book certainly qualifies for the name, and in that sense I've always been a bit dissatisfied with the name Gateway to All Marvels. Although I think that is a good way of capturing the allusion to Lao Zi (and I'm sure it's better than anything involving mysterious), it's disappointing not to have the word Classic in there somewhere.

I'd like to register a disclaimer to Footnote 20 below. I can't believe I used Mystery of the Mysterious (and if I did I'd want to change it!) but more importantly I have not put the entire text on the GoGoD CD. I have certainly translated it all and added extensive notes to explain all the names, but only a very small portion has been published. It was planned for Yutopian, but as next to nobody buys go books any more thanks to the internet, it wasn't worth the effort of formatting it.

tderz Thank you for the extensive answer, JohnF. Pinyin is important for me as memory support, as I know a bit Chinese, but far from all characters and often I know the meaning, but are off with the tones. I think it does not disturb people who are not used to pinyin.

Yes, I saw a website w.r.t. Pinyin and roadsigns in different Sino-Asian countries which showed many different combinations.
Concerning money and internet: since more than a year I want to buy a new CD as mylast GoGoD is from 2003, but I also want to claim my Euro 5,- credit from my last overpayment out of principle, due to my misunderstanding pound/euro etc. and I found the proving e-mail, hence I will re-order soon (must find the time)
For the incredible work you did for Go community (interested in Go history) I would like to thank you, thus I will re-order GoGoD more frequently from now on. (penultimate order was in 1999, I think)


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