kokiri - whilst we're talking about this general set up, i am reminded of a situation i got into in a tournament. The sequence proceeded as follows, with me merrily expecting to play 7 at a, played
and cheerfully slapped down
, only to meet
. I cut at b because I thought it would be unforgiveable to let B connect, and the game took a significant turn for the worse for me. I struggled on through some serious time trouble, and managed to secure a win against an opponent who would take three stones from me in a casual game only in the latter parts of the Yose.
Anyway, is my mistake , even though getting
would allow
at c (or
at d?), or
or is it all an unholy mess?
aLegendWai: Hi, kokiri. I once thought of that. But it seems I can't get good results so I abandon posting here. So how was it going on? Would you mind to show all related sequences?
Anyway, I would like to have a trial.
(Note: Paul Clarke posted a similar one first before I posted. But I think it is worthwhile to keep it here for an easy comparison with my next diagram)
I do think is an overplay. I think the purpose of it may be to get influence to the side. But it really depends on how the player plays.
It seems this tactic - add a second stone and sacrifice both should be used. I would like to play out . Reasons:
I think of several ways to deal with . The simplest one is get 2
stones instantly by playing at 3-3. A complex one is to extend (the above diagram).
can be played at "a". Sleepy again zzz... zzz... Check to see if the above is correct.
Paul Clarke: looks OK to me in this position, and after Black pincers
is a joseki move. I don't recall
being in Ishida, though it doesn't look unplayable; the sequence I remember is:
Sakata (W) vs. Fujisawa Hideyuki
Suzuki and Kitani give the following play in the corner after Black's hane-dashi.
kokiri - thanks for the advice, if memory serves, black played 5 here, I'm not exactly sure, but i'll check - i have it scribbled down somewhere. Regardless, I ended up having to make life for two weak groups while black tried to escape with his centre stones.
aLegendWai: Here is my idea. You may agree or disagree.
My advice is to abandon the 5 W stones and make a exchange (Your 5 W stones will not be wasted. Trust me :D). Black is strong in the upper side, so it is no good to struggle. Let Black takes the upper side. White takes the left side (and I think white should have friendly stones in the bottom part, right?).
One variation:
W may play a later on (when it is mature). White a is a probe move. If black hanes from outside, live in the corner. If black hanes from inside, escape and the 5 W stones should help W from keeping B to attack freely.
W may consider b too. If B hanes on the right (ie c), B should be able to live. If B hanes on the left (ie d), then extend to the left.
That's my idea. Feel free to comment.
PatrickB: A few concerns about your suggested approach:
aLegendWai: Thanks for your idea about the probe. I completely agree with you. But I think you misled that the probe is immediately played (sorry that my words are that unclear). I just show some more follow-up moves later on. The probe move is one option.
By the way, when B choose to hane from the outer, W may decide not to finish all moves and plays elsewhere. Then the W corner stone(s) can be a threat when W attacks the side.
Ar! Also even if B hanes from the outer, W may decide not to live small in the corner and cross-cut B.
You may choose to attach the B stone in other directions. Too many options indeed :P
(PS: In fact, is it possible to put a W stone with a letter label on it?)
aLegendWai: PatrickB, relating the strategy of abandoning the W group, I may be distracted by the statement (made by kokiri). The statement (5 Nov) is I ended up having to make life for two weak groups while black tried to escape with his centre stones.
This makes me assume saving 2 groups is a burden unfavorable to W. After longer pondering, it seems W may manage to keep both groups live without helping B too much (because the middle B group is not safe either, it won't launch attack so freely).
Anyway let's assume the whole-board situaton unfavors W to escape. This only keep W busy with saving both groups (because my suggestion is more or less based on this assumption).
You said the discard of W group is worth 40 points. I think you do not mean B can gain 40 points after the capture. To me, B gains about 19-20 points in capturing W only.
I think you are talking about the Deiri value or the value of difference on this capture. Even so, I beg to differ.
Reasons:
The capture looks very large, but not indeed.
(Any further discussion is welcome :P)