Pushing battles in joseki 8

  Difficulty: Expert   Keywords: Joseki
[Diagram]

Atari underneath variation

Playing B7 from beneath (rather than at a) is given superficial treatment in Ishida - just two diagrams. See 3-4 point high approach one-space low pincer for those. There is a ladder question, but this joseki occurs in pro games even when the ladder is good for White.

That is, the following development is sometimes seen:

[Diagram]

Atari underneath variation

Naturally with a bad ladder W5 will set up a net instead.

[Diagram]

Pushing line

Instead B2 is correct shape to hold everything together. W5 as shown is now joseki: Ishida gives White at a (Sakata Eio-Fujisawa Hideyuki 1961-03-08) which appears now to be obsolete. The issue now is whether or how White continues to push along. There is some curious aji in the corner.

[Diagram]

Pushing line (continuation)

W1 here is normal, with a and b also having been played. Black responds at c or d (but not hane [1]). White in the latter case then closes off the open skirt or gets ahead with the knight's move.

[Diagram]

Hashimoto-Rin

Hashimoto Utaro-Rin Kaiho 1974-05-02 continued in this way, with Black 11 at a for a fight in the centre. Omitting 6 was tried in a recent Korean game.


[1] Black hane in response to W1 was played by Christoph Gerlach 5d against Hans Pietsch in the 1996 Fujitsu Cup. White cut immediately.

[Diagram]

Pietsch's cut

After B2 we have transposed.

[Diagram]

Kim's variation

Seong-june Kim 6d gives this variation. This looks bad for White, unless there is some corner aji to use.

Pushing Battles in Joseki 8 Corner Aji Discussion: what can White do in the corner now?

[Diagram]

Korean book analysis

A Korean book considers this possible situation, with B8 avoiding being shut in rather than attending to the corner.

Charles Matthews


This is a copy of the living page "Pushing battles in joseki 8" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2007 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.
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