Block the thrust
This should be WME'ed then leftovers at the discussion page
Should we really recommend to Block the thrust?
(From BasicInstinct/Discussion)
Hikaru79: This seems to me to be the most controversial one... The two dangerous cutting points left by this can be very severe, and yet this was the only Basic Instinct that did not have an explanation. In what cases is
a good move?
Niklaus: This position only occurs if for some reason (for example ignoring a ko threat) basic instinct 6 is not followed.
However, is without any doubt the best move in this situation. Any other move, for example the diagram below, results in a much more severe cut! At least the cut in the original diagram is dependent on the surrounding situation, such as the ladder working or not.
Hikaru79: Yes, I agree with most of what you are saying, but that's because this example is given in complete isolation of the rest of the board. I think often I would rather play the "much worse diagram" and at least choose which side I'm throwing away rather than let my opponent choose for me... or maybe that's the coward in me talking ;)[9]
aLegendWai (9k? KGS): Correct me if wrong.
Here I think the exact shape is not important. Its gist should be to teach people to block the thrust first unless you have reasons NOT to do so. However my idea is the reverse.
Don't block the thrust by instinct unless you HAVE reasons to do so!!
Charles But I think in this exact position the advice is good. If you add other stones, then I think nobody can know.
aLegendWai (9k* KGS) If in this exact position (a rare isolation situation), agree! By the way, usually the problems of beginners is not that they never know to block, but always/usually block the thrust (even if the situation disfavor). That's why I add some examples to further illustration the idea of blocking a thrust.
It is better to think in this way because I see quite many beginners (including me V-V) make such kinds of mistakes.
First, let's talk about the intention of W.
Why does W threaten to cut? If W is not a weak player, it will simply play elsewhere (tenuki) instead of playing such a move You see:
So why does W make such a move? You have to be sure what it is going to achieve.
In Go games, the board is never in isolation, so I will explain in details by real examples. (Note the shape shown in the example alters but the concept applies)
Example 1 - block or not?
Bill: I do not see that this is an example of the basic instinct situation. It is true that those situations are local, but you really have to match empty points as well as stones.
Example 2 - block or not?
(From Bermuda Triangle)
Bill: No way!
You may call it "blocking the invaded stone".
is a common invasion.
applies the basic instinct to block
. Although it isn't always bad, it is usually bad when you don't know what you are doing and act wholly by the basic instinct of "block the thrust" / "block the invaded stone"...
Extracted:
Dieter: White applies basic instinct and hanes at . Black suddenly gets caught by fear and draws back at
.
makes a beautiful full triangle.
is severely weakened. Black's position is cut to pieces. The advantage of having two stones in that zone to begin with has vanished.
Example 3 - block or not?
Don't get me wrong that blocking a thrust is usually bad.
Never block is as bad as always block. So you should know when to block, when not.
Before you block, you should know why you block, and how to deal with when a cut is expected, etc.
Have a plan before you block. You should know what you are doing before you block!!
It all depends on B's strategy.
Probably here was to stop B from connecting. A thrust here was to create B's weakness at a or b when B blocked.
bud1027 Of course, it all might depend on B' strategy. But, locally speaking, not to block is really bad move in this case.
And, in my veiw, the variation in below diagram is something wrong or questionable.
I think is better, and white can not cut at a. If he cuts, the result will be disastrous for white...
It's regrettable that I cant show more detailed diagrams. Im a little tired now. anyway, in this case, not to choose blocking is obviously bad " locally "...
Btw, as you know, all of go proverbs have many exceptional cases, but they teach us what move we should consider at first.
For example, in almost situations, we must consider to block against opp's thrusting at first. In this sense, the teaching of "basic instincts" is correct. .
BYE@@@
In the real game, B chose to block the thrust. I think B chose to play influence and treated lightly (B is going to satisfy it). In my humble opinion, I think B may extend the
first before sacrificing it. More advantageous forced moves may be expected.
[9] Footnotes to this chapter
TJ: Basic instinct is what should go through your mind first...I think all examples are just "minimalist". At a thrust, you should think about blocking first, because it's usually correct. Imagine the black stones extended just a bit, even, say one stone on either side, with a one point gap between...if white thrusts in, black usually wants to block to avoid a nail being driven through his wall. The minimalism of this page is good for seeing basic shapes to trigger a basic instinctual thought, I think, so I don't propose making another diagram, though.
Re-reading Kageyama. He has a similar example, and this page came back to my mind. He says to block the thrust, period. You end up better after the cut. Maybe there are times when you shouldn't, but as one of his fundamentals, apparently don't over-think it and use, yes...your Basic Instinct. Someone should do a WikiMasterEdit, methinks, if we're done.:)
Charles Blocking is played 75% of the time, when I checked. Good enough: it's rarely going to be such a bad play.
![[Diagram]](../../diagrams/20/eeeb6f9a3d493249c3101914dbdb99ed.png)
Thrust -> dodge
An answer like here is the other kind of play to consider (if one answers locally).
One can't call that good shape in an unqualified way: see the related split shape.
Fhayashi: I think what it boils down to is that as long as you block, both black and white end up at least temporarily separated. If you don't block, white is connected and black is not.