This pincer is undoubtedly severe, but joseki for it have taken a long time to develop (it has been adopted much more slowly than the Magic Sword).[1] For a time it was principally associated with Otake Hideo: that was back in the 1970s. There has been some recent research giving new joseki.
For many years it was assumed that here is the only reply. Some games in which White tries a instead have been seen since 2001.[1] If running is bad for white because black has a stone in the way further down the board that white would run into, it's also possible for white to attach immediately at b.[2]
Black is expected to play here. NB that trying to connect under isn't good for Black. Now White a and b are seen.
This is one standard continuation, which leads to a running fight on the upper side. White must of course attack, having given Black territory.
This is a current idea, with White playing for immediate life; White 11 at a completes a joseki.
Alex Weldon: What is the point of here? Clearly, it's to defend against some White move that would hurt Black, or make things too easy to White, but I don't see it. Someone clarify for me?
Sorin Gherman: Alex, the purpose of is to both keep pressure on white (prevent him from simply playing hane in sente on top of
) and to make eye shape for black's group in the corner.
How should W respond to this and
? I descended and got cut into two groups, one of which was hunted down and eventually killed. Is
better at
?
~Coconuts
[1]
These plays are currently being experimented with: provokes
, and then White can try another butting play at
.
Charles - you state above that connecting underneath is bad for Black. As a novice, the connection underneath would quite possibly be my preferred move here.
What are the considerations that make this a poor move relative to the others? It seems to me that 1 would support if white had a stone positioned near the hoshi point to the right.
Charles I had this played against me once, ages ago. After White connects the ponnuki, for superior shape. That is,
is a failure; if
is at 4 and White connects at 3 this is like the Bermuda triangle.
It was 25 years ago, and my opponent David Mitchell had been reading a Japanese joseki dictionary in which this diagram occurred. After the game he went back and translated the comment, 'bad for Black'. What's more he told me this, which is more than some players would do. Those were naive, unspoiled days.
Yep, that makes sense now. Thanks for showing me - Phlegmatic
Bob McGuigan: After White connects the ponnuki, as in the following diagram,
the two marked points are cutting points in Black's shape and only one can be defended on the next move.
DJ: I've read somewhere that this pincer is quite strong in the Kobayashi Fuseki: the sequence in the diagram below is good for Black as a simple nozoki as keeps the connection...
That's maybe why White often plays a or b instead of ...
Now the database experts will tell you how often this sequence (or a, or b) has actually been played. I've played this with black a lot gaining quite an advantage in the fuseki, that then proceeded to waste in the chuban as is my style...
[1]
A dirk is a long straight-bladed dagger. Hence the facetious name.
[2]
Yang Keon (W) vs. Lee Changho 1995
There are a few variations in pro games which follow the attachment of (up to
is usual) but this variation is usually played when there is an opponent's stone in the running path, such as
or some other reason why a running fight is bad. I wonder whether amateurs can just play this regardless of
to avoid the running fight. Calvin