2005 Goodwill Rengo / Discussion

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Discussion of the 2005 Goodwill Rengo ongoing game.

W1, (10 in the game record) touches a the weak Black stone. As result, the circled Black stone is strengthened and the Black position on the right gains. W3 at 'f' would have minimized the damage to White by walking ahead?. White remains weak, with three distinct problems: the White group does not have base, the stone W1 has a liberty shortage and the White group has a connection problem at 'f'.

Per Kogo's Joseki Dictionary, W1 is not an option[1]. Rather White should have played either to get out, take the right side or to make a base in the corner using moves such as 'b', 'c', 'd', 'e', and 'f'. (letting per Kogo's)

Currenty, White needs to find a way to stablize these stones and get sente to attack the single Black stone in the corner (marked with a square).

[Diagram]

White 10 and follow up


[1] Mef: W1 isn't in kogo's, but pros play it, I'm pretty sure the continuation goes something like this:

[Diagram]

Joseki?




Velobici: I dont see that continuation at GoBase, using this search diagram. That's not to say that the path laid out above is not correct...just that GoBase does not show it. The stand, B2, was played most recently by Cho Chikun vs Kobayashi Satoru in 1996 in the 20th Kisei round one in Amsterdam. (Even a blind squirrel gets a nut from time to time. ;) Even if Cho did lose that game ;( Cho played B2 at the location of W7...completely different line of play. The two stones formed a three space extension on the third line along the left side of the board which allowed(?) Cho to switch B2 to W7. Cho also had thickness in the lower left facing this position as well.

In the variation below (Hane Yasumasa vs Sato Sunao 5th Judan 24 December 1965) please note that the order was different, the circled White stone attached to the circled Black stone and Sato desended to the third line immediately before W1 in the diagram.

[Diagram]

Mef: It had been a while since I looked at it, so I just double checked, you're right, W7 in my diagram is played as a double hane, not a nobi.

JoelR: Why isn't this a case of Hane at the Head of One and a Half? I would have cut at the cutting point immediately, but I didn't have the guts to do it in the Rengo.

[Diagram]

Jakub: Rui Naiwei 9 dan gives this continuation as joseki in her Essential Joseki (page 40, Basic Variation 6) but cautions this is a good line only when black does not have good chances for development along his side, which I think is definitely false here. That was the formation I was trying to lead into when I made my move 12 in the rengo

[Diagram]

This variation is listed immediately as an alternative which allows a prompt second approach to the corner stone.

[Diagram]

This complicated variation has occured in play ("Essential Joseki" p.41, Diagram 29), when white attaches underneath instead of making a second approach.

[Diagram]

Black probes for weakness in the white group, but then ...

[Diagram]

Black switches to the other side before resuming the attack, capturing a white stone

[Diagram]

An exchange is made giving Black thickness on one side for White's survival and a foothold on the other side

[Diagram]

This is the final position. The question is: can Black make good use of his thickness? I believe in our rengo, it would be advantageous for Black.

Bill:

[Diagram]

White strengthens Black's side

Do the pros really play W1 when Black has something like the BC stones? B2 says, Thank you, it seems to me.


[Diagram]

Moves 11 to 20

Jakub: In the present situation was it wise to strengthen the cutting stone W6? My instinct would have been to treat it lightly. I suppose the fascinating thing about Rengo is that another participant can attribute a totally different meaning to one's move than one had in mind.

Velobici: W8 could be a mistake. Black and White both have three groups here that are cutting each other apart. Two of the Black groups are single stones without nearby support. The single White stone has support it to which it can connect. Appears to be hard for Black to capture W2, W4 due to the weakness of Blacks on stones (B3, B7) and the White stone in the upper left that breaks ladders. Dont think that w6 is light at this time. White has not forced Black into an overconcentrated position or used w6 in order to save significant White stones, so W6 has not yet fulfilled a purpose important enough to compensate for giving it away.


[Diagram]

Moves 21 to 24

Jeff: This last move (4) seems off to me (weak player). I'd have expected it on the left edge somewhere to extend and attack that black 4-4 stone. Isn't that the bigger play? Isn't the white base strong enough on the top (for now)? Or should I wait it out and see if white pulls some sort of trick that my eyes don't yet see?

kokiri - W4 isn't making a base for White's stones, it's a pretty strong attack on the two marked black stones, which are weak given the White ponnuki below. It looks like a pretty good move to me. Because of this, I would have been tempted to play B1 at a to take sente, even though it allows W a kikashi at 3. What do people think of the variation below?

[Diagram]

Alternative move 24?

Jeff: Kokiri, you know, now that you show me this alternative where black gets first move in the top-right corner, it looks to me like a fifteen (or more!) point difference. With black getting the first move, I see reasonable territory against the side/corner. With white moving first, I see black in high pressure, making life against the side and hurting white's ability to make territory there, but black not really making significant corner/side territory. Thanks for the explanation by example!

[Diagram]

Alternate 19 to 24

JoelR: Yes, that was my intention with move 19. If White plays under, then he can connect the WC groups, but Black gets influence and sente. If White plays a ladder breaker, as in the game, then Black at a saves BC and strengthens the corner, and White should still make the ponnuki and Black has sente.



term100?: How about this proposal: Anyone making a move pledges to make a donation on behalf of the victims of the Indian Ocean tsunamis.

Corner approach question

[Diagram]

Approach at move 26

Shaydwyrm: In the game, white approached at "a", but to my kyu sense this move gives me the wrong feeling. The severe one-space pincer at "e" feels almost too good too allow, since black's thickness starts working so well. I was considering two possibilities in this area, the more distant approach at "b" and a wedge somewhere around "c". I am not convinced though that either is the correct move, since, as Jakub implied, the wedge permitting a shimari seems to leave black with an awful lot of territory, and the distant approach is still far enough away from black's wall to allow a close pincer to work well. Right now I am leaning towards the distant approach, since a pincer would at least allow white to much about in the corner with the attachment at "d". Thoughts on the best way to handle the bottom side here?

[Diagram]

Approach at move 26

unkx80: How is W1?

[Diagram]

Approach at move 26

If B2 here, then W3 extends and makes a corner approach at the same time. Subsequently, Black a is big but feels somewhat constricted.


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