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Calling Out Atari
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exswoo : I'm not exactly sure under what section this belongs in, so I guess variants are as good as any (either that or bad habits).I put it under GoEtiquette and GoodHabits, though personally I think it is to avoid. --Dieter

I've met a number of players who insist on calling out ataris (much like calling check in chess) in friendly games (in real-life games, of course) and I was wondering how other players feel about this "rule".

inserted by Andrew Walkingshaw: For what it's worth calling out check in chess is generally regarded as an insult/breach of etiquette, for much the same reasons Andrew Grant goes into later. I've never seen it happen in an adult tournament.

  • Is saying check a breach of etiquette in Chess? Certainly you can't do it in a tournament, but I think it's fine between friends. ~ian~

It doesn't apply to your opponent playing into an atari, so it does't really affect the game too much, but it does seem to encourage players to not read the entire board situation as hard as they should be. What do you guys think?

Charles Matthews I don't know of any group of active players in which saying 'atari' is current (except in a facetious way). They say it was part of the old Japanese etiquette. I'd make it a bad habit.

~ian~: I keep saying j'adoube in time controlled games purely out of habit as I'm used to doing it in chess. I'd never say atari though unless in a teaching game against a beginner to point out a stone was about to drop.

Migeru I like to say atari in teaching games, but not consistently, and as the people I teach become stronger I say it less and less.

Michael Richter: When people start calling "atari" out to me, I start calling "coleco" or "nintendo" or "sega" back at them. They either get annoyed and never play with me again (which suits me fine) or they shut up and stop calling atari. Is this wrong?

Tamsin No, not at all. They should have a sense of humour about it! :-)
Bignose: It's a bit of a stupid joke, though. The term "atari" has usage in go much older than the game console name -- and its makers have stated that it inspired their name for the game console. So, while it might be funny if the two were completely unrelated, I don't see the point in light of the actual derivation of the name.

Niklaus: I've met several players who sometimes in friendly games make comments about the game using intentionally inappropriate Japanese or self-made expressions, which can be quite funny. This often includes saying atari even though there is none on the board. Don't do this to the 37k who is playing his first game on a 19x19 board against you. He's confused enough already :) Another situation when I say atari is when my opponent obviously misses that a huge important group is in atari and is thinking long about where to tenuki (probably I wouldn't if I was losing a tournament game :-).

Andrew Grant Announcing "atari" is a bad habit for three reasons:

1. Many opponents find the implication that they're not capable of spotting an atari by themselves insulting.

2. The constant background noise of people saying "atari" is distracting to the opponent and to other players nearby. If you've ever played in a room full of Ing timers you'll know what I'm talking about here.

3. It gives the subtle impression that atari has to be answered in the same way that check must be answered in Chess. Beginners who have come from a Chess background could easily fall into this trap.

The only time when it's sort of OK to say "atari" is when you're teaching an absolute beginner who hasn't quite got the concept of keeping track of liberties yet. But even then you should wean them off it as soon as you can.

Jasonred : Heh, would be quite funny during a ko fight wouldn't it? And what happens during double atari's?

Dieter: It all depends of place and time of course. Me and my clubmates can have lots of fun shouting out loud whatever Japanese term may be applicable to the move we're playing. It starts with onegaishimasu and invariably ends with makemashita.

holosys: Imagine a board with lots of ataris which are left unanswered, a very common sight in more advanced games. Whereas check must be dealt with in chess, atari can be ignored quite deliberately to your advantage. If you call atari then you might as well call 'one eye already' or 'ko' or dozens of other local situations which, in themselves, are not necessarily of much significance. I'd say it's useful for beginners, where it can be tricky to spot ataris, but in any case new players soon need to break the habit of responding to every atari with a rescue.

worf: I don't want to win a game because of my oponent hasn't seen an atari, If a situation is complex and my oponent could miss an atari I would never omit saying atari!

DrStraw: The implication seems to be that you want to opponent to answer the atari to ensure he does not lose. But surely, you would not want him to lose by answering an atari unnecessarily. So I have to assume that in those cases you do not tell him. Ergo, "atari" from you means "I think I can read better than you and you better answer my move, or else....", where as failure to call "atari" means "I just put you in atari but you do not need to answer it as I am stupid enough to play a gote move in this situation". Either you have an interesting philosophy or I am missing something :)
Rakshasa: If you don't want your opponent to make those kinds of mistake, why don't you tell him early on, "If you play there you will fall into the trap i'm setting up here." Then you won't feel bad at all. Besides, if he can't see an atari perhaps he should get some new glasses instead?

Hikaru79: Isn't telling your opponent "Watch out, don't fall into my trap!" a lot more disrespectful and offensive than simply saying atari? "Atari" doesn't annoy me, but having my opponent warn me whenever I'm in a risky spot would.

minismurf: Some people (mostly go players I would think) think calling "Check" in chess is OK because it has to be answered. Conversely, they think calling "Atari" in go is wrong because it does not have to be answered.

But really, if you didn't see or fore-see the Check or Atari, you are strategically lost anyway. I think that the conclusion is that except at the beginner level, calling either Check or Atari is at least meaningless, and perhaps rude or disrepectful.

On the other hand, when teaching a beginner, showing ataris, ladders and other traps during the game is a completely different matter. You should be careful you are not playing the game for him, but giving some hints to avoid big mistakes is not a bad thing I think.

Vesa: Must be somehow a Swedish thing. [ext] A true story. Personally, I prefer silence during the game, was it a tournament or a server game. If you want to achieve the teaching game goals, you should make the ataris in that kind of position that the answers are forced.

minismurf: A funny story I must say. But here, I am talking about when you give a beginner 4 stones on a 9x9 board, or 6 stones on a 13x13 board. I find this a better way to teach one person, than to do a formal lesson, and in the case of playing such a teaching game I would sometimes point out ataris, ladders, etc.

When my opponent is stronger than 15k, so that I give him perhaps 9 stones on the 19x19 board, I'd certainly let him fend for his own. I agree that best kind of a game is a silent game.

Joshual000: One of my 'regular' opponents points to or touches a stone or group that he has just put into atari. Sort of a casual point or touch while withdrawing his hand after placing his stone. I found this method so unobtrusive and agreeable, I've adopted it in my own play. A hand-talk for handtalk of sorts.

puripuri: If calling out atari makes sense, then shouldn't nets and ladders and loose ladders and snapbacks be called out too...? And how about kikashi?



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This is a copy of the living page "Calling Out Atari" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2004 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.