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Blind Go
Path: MakingYourOwnEquipment   · Prev: CaringForGoStones   · Next: GobanSelfMade
   

SnotNose What would it be like to play go if you were blind? Does anyone know any blind players? Have they made or purchased special boards with tactile differences to help them feel the shapes? Imagine trying to do this! How big a board could you play blind go on? I think 9x9 would be hard.

AndreasTeckentrup I met a blind player participating in this year's (2003) tournament in Luxembourg. She played as 26k, and used a second special 19x19 board with rough black pins and smooth white pins, feeling the board all the time, while her opponent used a normal board. It is possible, but very hard, and practically impossible to reach even a medium level of strength.

victim Her name is Kim Hoogenraad, she was also in the tournament in Amsterdam the same year. The opponent has to put the stone on both boards and touch her hands to guide her to the new stone. I'm curious how strong she will get.

SnotNose Yes, but a separate question is: Suppose a strong player becomes blind; then how would they perform? Or, how well would you do playing blindfolded? I guess without a special tactile board, this would be very hard (even communicating where the stones were placed would be hard). But, with the right board, how well could you do?

I'm guessing I'd be at least 10 stones weaker, bumping me down from nearly 1d to 10k or worse. The opening would be easy and the middle and end games would be very hard. Just counting to see who was ahead whold be hard. I'd have to begin with 9x9 and work on my visual memory.

Would this type of practice help improve my game? I've memorized and replayed pro games in my head but that's quite different from trying to find the next move only from a mental picture.

Sebastian: -- I once made a 9x9 board and stones for a blind friend of mine. I'm not sure about the exact dimensions because I'm writing from memory. The stones were wooden pins with a diameter of 1 cm and a length of about 2.5 cm. The white pieces were left cylindrical, and the black pieces were rounded off at the top so that they felt like a thick stone (I felt that the smoother shape is more female). I made the latter a bit taller because I thought since they're round they should stick out further (in analogy to typography), but she said they should rather be the same length. Since I stained the black pegs it was not necessary to double the set. (Of course, this would be different in a tournament.) The board itself was 24 x 26 cm. It consisted of two wooden boards, a top with the holes and the bottom one to close them off. The thickness of the top board (and thus the depth of the holes) was about 5 mm. This worked pretty well. I had made the distance between holes about 1.5 times their diameter to make it easier to grab them, but this was a very unfamiliar view to seeing people. In hindsight, I think it might even have been better for her, as well, if I had kept them closer together, and I would definitely try this if I were to make another board.

Unfortunately, she didn't get hooked to Go (in hindsight, I realize that I should have started teaching her on a 5x5 board), but she used the board for several other board games, above all Mensch Ärger Dich Nicht, which fit well into the 9 x 9 grid. -- 2003-09-19

rubilia: -- Quite an interesting matter! - Thinking about a beneficial go board for blind people, I just got another idea. I imagine a vertical goban with snip-snap button points wich can be switched between three positions by pressing from one or the other side. The players should sit face to face with the board standing between them lengthwise.

The positions are:

  • "flat" if the point is empty,
  • convex to the left (resp. concave to the right) if thereīs an own, and
  • concave to the left (resp. convex to the right) if thereīs an opponentīs stone.

The active player can finger both sides simultaneously, wich may advance perception abilities. To move, a player pushes a flat point with his/her right digit, so that it becomes convex at the left side (wich is the right one to the opponent). There should be something like detectable grid lines, and the button points must be slightly limber so that itīs easier to coordinate both handīs impressions, especially to beginners.

For a person who already has been playing go for years when loosing eyesight, "thinking go vertically" probably would be quite a difficult change in mind (as it would to most seeing people). To understand a game, we usually need to see the surface of a goban rather than to look at the board from the tableīs edge perspective :). But if youīd never learned to look at things the "flat to face" way we do, your three-dimensional imagination might adapt to different views with less effort.

Thereīd be no parts to lose (but the whole board, hehe), and counting captured stones isnīt really necessary to play go - just apply area counting rules like chinese or american ones. Therefore, using this board, even two blind players could enjoy a game without other peopleīs help. 19x19 still may be kind of hard to survey, but perhaps itīs possible to play serious 13x13 games with some practice.

Though, humm, where to get the time and material from to build the button board? -- 2003-11-01

(Sebastian:) Interesting idea - you would hold it like a harp. Maybe you could build it with Lego? A little technical problem would be that the "stones" need to be easy to place, but they have to be absolutely safe when you feel the board. -- 2003-11-01

SnotNose: Very nice idea. A plus for kids: stones cannot be lost or eaten :)

Naustin--Concerning blindfold go it's said that masters can replay whole games from memory. Seems if they could do that that they should be able to play a whole game blind folded though they might take longer to do it and they might not be able to play as strongly given that they had to spend more mental effort just remembering the position. I've never heard of anyone playing blindfolded go though though in chess it is fairly common (anyone remember the TV show about the special genius class in a public high school like in early 90's or something with the guy and the girl who would play chess just by saying moves to eachother. What was that show called?) I have even read of chess masters who could play simutaneous blindfolded games. I'm surprised if it hasn't at least been attempted in a serious way with go.

SnotNose: One need not be a master to replay a game from memory. While it seems daunting at first, with practice, kyu players can do it. With constant (mental) review, I've been able to keep a small number (5-10) of the same games in my head for a few months (mixture of pro games and my own games). With ease I can remember the game I just played. Yet, I am certain I would have trouble even playing a 9x9 blindfolded. The reason is that, for games I've memorized, I am not really remembering a full picture of the board in my head. I'm remembering where each move is in relation to other stones, locally. So, I will remember things like "the next move was in the upper right and it is an atari on that third-line stone" or some such. But, I can't just sit down and say where all the stones are. I have to go all the way back to the beginning and step through it.

So, it is a replay capacity but not a "complete picture of the board" capacity. The latter would be more helpful for blind go.

jk: MindZine has an [ext] article about blind go players. It says there are special touch-friendly boards that can be used, and that some blind players have reached amateur dan level.

Naustin What you said about memory makes sense to me. I can see the difference between holding a whole board in your mind and being able to consider it as such in order to choose the best move versus just trying to remember where the next move was and what a few local circumstances were. On the other hand I mentioned that I can see a professionsal not being able to play full strength in a blind fold game but it still seems to me that 1) just as with some practice you ( amateur 1d ? ) are able to remember and replay games, someone who was a proffessional and devoted most of their time to go should be able to accomplish this. I read something recently on the web about the relationship between go and intelligence. (I think it was here on SL) It referred to the fact that professional Go players use parts of their brain that are not normaly used for memory to store Go information. It seems with their superior knowledge and skills they should be able to play a competent blindfolded game. 2) just as in the regular populace there occur individuals with superior aptitudes (photographic memory, superior spacial relatioship envisioning skills) these also should arise among the Go playing populace. In fact I think the same place as above was discussing the fact that pro Go players tend to have high spacial relationship skills anyway.

I wonder if the reason has more to do with culture. Until recently the game was dominated by the Japanese. The culture that surrounded the game was very serious. Much more weight was put on propriety, strict standards of beauty, honor, etc. This is not a culture that is open to showy spectacles such as blindfold games. It seems as if perhaps because playing blindfolded would never be as good a game as regular maybe it would seem frivolous and dishonarable to engage in such an activity. Maybe there is some unheard of genius of Go who did play Go blindfolded at circuses or in direputable taverns but never got into the official history because he wasn't considered a serious player. Just a guess though.

Zero? i see on this page [ext] http://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/kishihp/shigeno/2002/0208-e.htm The last photos show two young player who are playing with a special 19 * 19 board. I think that there are visually impaired. I thinks that it must be possible to have a good strong.



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This is a copy of the living page "Blind Go" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2004 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.