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KGS Wishlist - General UI
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Keywords: Online Go, Clubs & Places, Software
4. General UI and Design Issues
- deg: More of a CGoban2 request - when editing an sgf file, be able to hide the 'Click to play a stone etc' part of the Edit tools window.
- One simple thing I noticed missing is the absence of hot keys for the file menus.
eg: help should be accessible with alt-h
this wouldn't take long to fix
On a more random note I recently found myself wishing it was possible to play entirely by keyboard...
- dnerra: This was once suggested in a RGG thread about go server clients, and I think it would be a great idea: A full-screen mode for playing/observing a game that would make one kind of forget that one is sitting in front of a computer. Imagine just seeing the go board in front of a dark background...yeah I know, there still have to a couple of buttons and the clock somewhere, but still. To many, part of the pleasure of go is the aesthetically pleasing game equipment after all. Is this possible at all in Java?
- This would be great, and could work like a live screensaver- i'd definitely use this!! Perhaps something to always select the strongest games one after the other as one game finishes along with this?
- puripuri: I support this idea wholeheartedly. I'm playing in KGS completely without a mouse in any case, by using the Windows numeral pad mouse (from accessability or whatever options) to move the cursor around. I'd be happy forever and after if I could just type the coordinates into a small input box to set the stone icon at that position, and then press some extra confirmation button or key to actually place the move. Cursor keys would move the stone after that? Also while at it, why not put keyboard shortcuts for changing the Editing Tools functions and selecting the option buttons, so everything necessary in the game window would work from keyboard only just like that... ;)
- Always on top -ability. I'd really love to hang around in irc and play at the same time. -Mokki
- Rakshasa: Isn't that a window-manager's task? (Though propably only available if you are using a real OS)
- Tabbed game viewing, instead of pop-ups. +?
- Remember different window sizes for different board sizes as it's almost scary to play 19x19 and then open a 9x9 board with the same window size. Huge!
- Rakshasa: This is especially annoying for people like me who often play 9x9's.
- Ability to selectively "fix" game options so they cannot be changed by a challenger. Ability to filter out requests from guests or ~ ranked players who are weaker than you (auto-decline).+
- wms: Sorry, but the killer here is that the game setup dialog is too complicated already. Too many things to tweak, too easy to forget one. Since pressing "decline" is easy and straightforward, I'm really reluctant to add another button and make an already-too-complicated GUI even more complicated.
- Please consider it though. This one seems like a really nice idea
- Mramahi1: Can you not add a button somewhere that shows advanced options but hides it if you do not wish to use them? That way you can add as many complicated options as you want and not confuse the normal users but still make the features available.
- Joseba? Add "reason" to game challenge responses and rejects so that you can say something like "too much handicap", "too fast". The UI would only need to add one line called something like "remark to player". Alternatively, just make the existing "remark" line editable.
- Joseba? Add "chat" and "view user information" button in game setup dialog.
- A single black/white stone icon to the left of the name, not 3 behind the name. Prisoners should be shown by count only, as showing black stones under white player's name makes it confusing. Moves per unit of time style (eg "3:04/7") is hard to read. I suggest either adding spaces (eg "3:04 / 7") or have 2 separate fields (eg "Time: 3:04, Moves: 7").
- timer font: yellow on black; red is barely readable.
- Show game rules in the box over the game board (rule set, timing style). [Time style is obvious from the clocks.]
- Ability to click on any user text in game window to set game to position when that text was typed.
- Have focus go to the input field when you press the Escape key, in any window with an input field.
- When one accidently presses letter "u", do not right away send an undo request, but display a confirmation window asking user if this is what he/she wanted to do. ++
- Allow keyboard focus on game window so players can play using arrow keys + ENTER. As above, TAB key should allow focus to switch between "obvious" places, which does not include up/down scroll buttons on scroll bars.
- Guess the next move feature when observing games. Server can keep track of correct/incorrect guesses. Perhaps ability to see how other observers are doing. Very fun for guess the next move demonstrations. +++
- When looking over completed games, Editing Tool must open. This causes serious delays trying to click through moves. Is this delay caused by the tool window updating? Is there a way to make prev/next work faster?
- Add keyboard shortcuts for as much as possible, but especially for moving through games. Back, Forward, Previous Variation and Next Variation would be most useful.
- Already there: shift + left/right arrow for back/forward, ctrl + left/right arrow for previous/next comment or node and shift or ctrl + up/down for previous/next variation.
- Ekted: Doesn't work for me. I tried it with the focus on every possible window/control.
- Focus on one of the arrow buttons in the game window.
- Ekted: Geez why so specific? Why can't it work like accelerators in Windows: the keys works no matter where the focus is.
- wms: It isn't so specific. Actually, they work unless you have a text field focussed - then the text field "eats" the keystrokes. I think that this is the only way that things make sense, arrow keys have meaning when you are typing text so eating them seems right, but it can be annoying. And I don't want to switch to n/p/u/d and the hotkeys, then only Emacs users would be able to figure out what to do. I have considered trying to prevent the text fields from eating the keystrokes when the text field is empty, but that is tricky, I don't think that java doesn't provide explicit hooks to do this.
- WarrenLewis: How about if focus is anywhere in the board area? But, not in text fields. I think that is what ggo does.
- Ekted: Make "Open Games" tab optional. I think the proper way to handle open games is to show them in all rooms. That way you can talk in the room you are in, and still watch all games.
- Neil: I hope it stays the way it is. Having lots of random open games inside every room makes those rooms harder to use. Well, I woudln't object to the open games list being closable, but I like that current step toward separating English room chat from the main game finding possibilities.
- RussellKhan: One way I think would work nicely is to set it up so that one can switch the displayed game list between "Open Games" and the current room's game list while leaving the chat screen for the current room in the bottom panel.
- Ekted: Allowing the open-ness of a game to be set by its creator is silly. If I want to see all games, I should be able to since I can find them all by subscribing to all rooms anyways. Open games should be ALL games in ALL public rooms. Additionally, if you enable open games, then the room they are in should show in the game list. -
- Neil: If I open up a game in a teaching room with the intent of teaching one person or one of a few people, or even just with the intent of playing one of a few friends, there's no sense putting it on the global list.
- Ekted: If I have that teaching room open I can see your game, so I should be able to see that game in my "open games" window whether you want me to or not. Do not create situations where users are fighting over what one wants to show and what one wants to see when the information is public anyways.
- Neil: If it's a private room the game offer won't be visible to you, and if it's a private game there's no point in you seeing the offer. How can two users fight over whether one user's game offer is visible in Open Games or not, by the way?
- Ekted: My point is from the context of design. You can make a feature, then add an option for others to disable it, then add another option for others to override that, etc etc. Ultimately it's best if a user can see what he wants to see. If I can go to the French room and see all French games, then I should be able to see them in the open games list. Also, if I don't want to see the open games list at all, I should be able to turn it off.
- Neil: What good is it to have the server show you games offered by people who don't want to play you? If you're not in the room the person is offering the game in, clearly the person does not want to play you, so there's no point in cluttering your list with the game or wasting the person's time by making him decline you. Information is not valuable in itself. The server should only tell you games that are relevant to you.
- wms: The main reason that users can choose that their game not appear on the main list is because I have been told that some users only want to play with people they can talk to. If they make a game in the French room, it's pretty unlikely that a non-French speaker will see the game and start playing. It's not meant to hide information that somebody wants to see, it's just meant to make it more likely that a player gets the game that they want. As for private rooms & games, these never appear on the open game list, even if the user leaves the "open list" box checked.
- Ekted: Allowing users to filter game challenges by rank/time is way more important than based on room.
- Ekted: Users should be able to set some criteria for filtering what games are shown based on: absolute/relative, rank, ruleset, time system, time, censored players. I realize this is somewhat complex, but I only ever consider playing in a small subset of the game list, so why show it all? For example, I may want to only see games within 3 ranks of me, japanese rules, 15+ minutes, and NOT against anyone who I have marked as censored.
- Neil: I think this has been discussed before elsewhere, with wms coming down in favor of UI simplicity. Maybe still survives in one of the archived discussion pages?
- Matt Noonan: I would like to propose some kind of middle ground. There could be some controls at the bottom of the open games window with the simplest options, like "Minimum Rank", "Maximum Rank" and an "Alert" checkbox. If the box is checked and a new game offer appears in your range, the tab could turn blue.
- Ekted: Setting of "open list" checkbox in create game dialog is not remembered between sessions. It always defaults to on.
- Ekted: Cloning a game you are watching is incredibly slow. It appears that the tools window is force-updated as each single move is received. It sometimes takes 60 seconds to get the whole game. An entire game is only a few K. This should take much less than 1 second to transmit.
- rubilia: I'd like the "resume" button (not) to be greyed out (or to turn blue), depending on if any of the unfinished games currently may be continued. Because most times there's no opponent online to continue a game with, I am not very fond of clicking the button every 10 minutes. Also, its not convenient to have to remember and look for all left opponent's names in the english room all the time. So the unfinished games just get older and older, even if we already could have finished them several times (like it is shown by the "last login" data in player's info).
- (Sebastian:) I'd like to go even further. Ideally, as soon as both players are logged in, they would get automatic messages or a challenge.
Details: If none of the players are currently in a game, create the challenge. If A is already playing, delay the message for him till he is done (according to the wish "Improve Talk To - part 2") and give B a message like: "A is currently playing. Click here to observe the game while you're waiting". (related: [1301])
- rubilia: That would be nice, of course, but possibly it'd need more afford than wms wants to spend to this matter currently. Just to let the resume button blacken in/grey out, should be little work for much use.
- (Sebastian:) Another way to facilitate finishing disconnected games: Allow both players to declare the game as untimed. If I understand the logic correctly, this is necessary for the game to be finished on a move by move basis.
- axd: The layout of the different cGoban windows is poor. I find the way window resize events manage the window layout irritating. Use a separate window for the goban, controls (keep on top) and chat/comment pane, generalize the use of docking, all to make more efficient use of the screen (an indication of inefficiency is the amount of visible green background!). Likewise, the Editing Tools window takes a lot of screen estate because of the relatively useless help text (it's of no use after a while). Maybe the buttons should be replaced by a context popup menu, and the help text replaced by tiptext help.
- epilogue: if you don't want to introduce modularity, as suggested by axd, then please consider allowing user to resize the dimensions of both the chat space, game controls, and observers list.
- Velobici: button to bring up a dialog box to leave a person a message from the "View User's Information" page.
- geno: Let CGoban2 use X fonts (as opposed to "They must be true type (.ttf) fonts."). Add a font-selection dialog to choose fonts for Japanese, etc. (Strangely, Russian works out of the box, but not Japanese.) Make everything an option: "Any feature that can`t be turned off is a bug."
- wms: I can't disagree more strongly about "any feature that can't be turned off is a bug". I feel, "any feature that people need to turn off with an option probably shouldn't be there in the first place - and any option that needs more than 5 seconds to understand definitely shouldn't be there." If a non-computer expert was shown a "Use X fonts or java fonts?" option, do you really think there's a snowball's chance in hell that they'll figure out what it means?
- geno: Perhaps not, but couldn't options for advanced users be in, for instance, an "Advanced Options" dialog? I understand that most people don't want lots of options, but no one is better placed than the designer to add these things somewhere, anywhere.
- I still haven't gotten CGoban to display a monospaced font in the main window for NNGS without borking up the other windows, and I have spent the bulk of my free time over the last three days trying to get Japanese fonts into CGoban2. I have some experience, but I've never needed to learn font configuration.
- Or to approach things another way, why ever ask anyone to choose between X fonts and java fonts? Can't we use both? As for "probably shouldn't be there in the first place", different users like different features. One's not better than the other, it's a preference.
- wms: Advanced preferences is no better. Besides the UI complexity, it makes maintenance a nightmare; when somebody reports a crash, maybe it only happens if (for example) they have X11 fonts, with Japanese characters from the Mincho package, and have "show comments in game" shut off, and the board set to a custom color. Ugh. As for X11 fonts, that's not possible anyway as a stock checkbox - there are dozens of different font arrangements used under X11. I use the fonts that your java config has. If you want to use your X11 fonts, you can just reconfigure java. Believe me, X11 fonts are such a mess, that for you to reconfigure Java would be 100 times easier than for me to get a reasonable way of pulling X11 fonts into CGoban 2 (plus, of course, the X11 thing would be totally stupid for Windows and OS X).
- geno: Ok, I understand now, thank you.
- axd: provide access to the "Configure" window after having launched off-line; add a "show coordinates" toggle.
- wms: Already there. Control-L toggles coordinates, and the configure button is always available as long as you don't close the main splash screen.
- axd: Hello? Where are all the keyboard shortcuts documented, please? And where is this configure button when you load a game off-line? I'm running version 2.5.5 - also something that is not readily available when running in standalone.
- holosys: a cosmetic request for the shell stones - would it be possible to have stones which display a plain surface now and again, instead of every single stone displaying a random grain pattern? I guess it would need to be a plain stone 50% of the time and a random grain pattern the other 50%. Just a nice to have, not a must have :-)
- jhouse More context options when right clicking on a game. Specifically of interest to me is "view info" when right clicking on an open game to view the creator's info.
- wms: HELP! THIS PAGE NEEDS A FAQ! Sorry jhouse, but you are about the 5th person to ask for this, and it's already there! Just click the game. Don't press "OK" to send in a challenge. Instead press the "?" button next to the player's name. You get their info. I prefer it there, because 99% of the time you are considering challenging the person; this way, if you decide that you want to, you already have the challenge window opened up, there was no need to open a popup menu.
- GG?: I second jhouse's wish. It is an option that I intuitively expected in the game's context menu. And although I was looking, I did not find out about the "?" button myself but just learned that right here. Given that many people apparently have the same problem, maybe add the context menu entry? Please? :)
- MK: It's not this page that needs a faq, it's KGS that needs an update on help files so that people find out what is possible on KGS and don't ask for it anymore...
- (Sebastian:) You are right, MK! See 7001.
- When displaying a saved game (a .sgf file), I would like to see the file name displayed in the title bar. I have many saved games and, when I open a game for review, I don't always remember which file I opened. +
- Fwiffo: It would be nice if text from teachers in demonstration games was bold or a different color or something. +++
- Neil: Bold is out because it already is used to designate admins, but I'm sure this feature will go in as soon as Mr. Shubert gets a chance to use icons next to the names.
- Fwiffo: I was talking about the text in the chat area, not the user list. It was prompted by a demonstration game where the teacher was typing in all caps so that they could be seen over the chatter of all the observers. Then there was even more chatter because people kept asking him why he was shouting. So he stopped using it, but then everyone started getting confused, so he switched back and forth for a while until everyone was annoyed. :-)
- Neil: Yes, I missed the words "text from." I'm bet the icon idea will apply to both, though. :-)
- RussellKhan: Perhaps another way of accomplishing this would be to allow users to select people whose text will be highlighted - maybe as a feature of the buddy list (maybe not, maybe entirely separate, as a per-session only setting).
- Rakshasa: My picture is a png file with sharp edges, when it is resized in the game window it has some artifacts due to aliasing. Would it be too much work add some simple form of smoothing?+
- axd: generate variations of a move by right-clicking (as in Jago): sometimes I want to decide first on the options, then explore them; now, I need to go back and see if more options can be played (or, alternatively, place a stone, come back, place another stone, come back, etc). Ghost stones (brothers of the current move, already proposed in this page) would also be nice, because I always need to enter into a variation to see where it is.
- uxs: If you open an SGF-file where one of the players has a very long name, the right part of the interface becomes as big as to be able to fit the name in it. As a consequence, the board on the left becomes very very small. It would be nice if either the name would be cut off if it becomes too big, or if it would wrap around.
- Ability to show Webcam windows for users who have webcams so that we can see each other while they play +
- wms: Got an email suggestion to be able to have people see where the teacher's mouse is during reviews/demonstrations, so the teacher can just say "over here..." and point, without having to put down marks.
- RussellKhan: I don't think I like that idea, since the information would be lost in reviewing the SGF at later times.
- axd: No need to record mouse positions; the proposed feature has a very good additional didactive value, especially now this voice capability has been introduced. And the teacher can always insert symbols if essential positions should be remembered in the SGF. (Actually the voice capability risks to dramatically reduce the amount of precious post-game analysis comments currently stored in an SGF!!)
- Ellbur: For those who have a slow network connection or a really slow processor, it would be nice to have the client keep track of its own time. -
- Fwiffo: This is discussed a bit on KGS Bugs. I do not think it is possible to do this securely, i.e. if the protocol allowed for this, it would be possible to create a hacked version of the client that would let you cheat on time.
- axd: replay mode: because the move time info is available: not only the time, but also the time spent for the move could be displayed (between brackets?), as an indication how long the player thought about the move (forgetting about net lag etc); additionnally, [very insignificant feature, probably too much programming effort for what it's worth:] a switch allows the replay to take the real time spent instead of playing at a constant speed. (see also
http://senseis.xmp.net/?diff=HowToRecordAGame&new=12)
- Tom: A couple of times recently, I have observed people commenting inappropriately and unintentionally during teaching games. I think it would be good if there was some subtle reminder for non-players that their comments could be seen by the players. Maybe a red border round the text entry box, or text appearing red? I don't know what would be easy to implement. Thanks for reading :).
- axd: Emit a very short click (far shorter than the stone played sound) for each prisoner taken. This may ... sound stupid, but if one is not fully watching the goban (as (s)he is supposed to be doing), it might sometimes be difficult to realise prisoners have been captured, and how much (no intention to know the exact number of prisoners, only an indication of magnitude). I would think of this typical ricketing sound made by beads on a string.
- axd: also provide an option to have a discrete click sound when navigating through the game tree: sometimes it is difficult to follow when a teacher advances fast, the eye cannot follow the moves; sound also gives an indication of the speed at which the game tree is traversed.
- DnF: Show GMT time in the menubar (and maybe local time too). This would make it easier to communicate.
- tasuki: I would really appreciate some kind of mark on the game list to show who escaped the unfinished game, it would be very helpful in identifying escapers
- When giving somebody access to private games, it would be nice if there were a way to later take away that access, if it were only necessary temporarily.
- Benjamin Geiger: I'd like support for MacOS X behavior: application menu, command-key shortcuts, etc. I'm not sure whether this is feasible with Java, but it would be nice if it is. (If not, not a problem. Thanks anyway.)
- Joonas Tyystjarvi: Just a minor thing. When using the "forward" button in the sgf editor, it's easy to accidentally click on the "close" button and have the editor close instantly. I think a solution would be either to swap its place with the "options" button or to always show the "are you sure?" confirmation dialog.
- When the results dialog appears, make sure it is only in front of the associated game window (like gGo does), not front-and-centre of all windows.
Tamsin: I hope I've found the right place for my suggestion! Have you seen the new IGS client gIgo? It is superb. The feature I really like is its 3d display, which is absolutely breathtaking. Would it be possible to have such a display for KGS?
Spingle?: I couldn't find this suggestion anywhere. A way to jump to a name/rank in the sorted list of players. Press "j" to jump to "jaaaaa" for instance, I was initially thinking of this idea for the main games page in the english room, it is nice to see how many people of about the same rank are on. I guess this could also be done for rank. Thnx.
Conan: I have 2 suggestions. 1)some kind of library feature. just a button that takes the word and opens the browser to senseis link or something. This way people would stop asking "what is kikashi? " cuz its a pain :P
2) the categories in the rooms thing is really primitive. It hurts more than helps, lookgin for a room is a real pain, maybe you could add a search feature in that too. I ve been driven insane looking for "something go club" when it was "the something go club".
Anonymous writer: Another idea: there should be an "official commentator" feature. The raw idea is that someone that is the OC can make variations that other observers can see, this way explaining through variations much more easier than using coordinates. Also it's practical and effective. Many times i see coordinates and i waste too much time to see the sequence or to refute it and stuff.
Hu: This already exists. The "OC" can "Clone Game" (in the Options menu) and accomplish all you suggest.
Warp: Whatever happened to the suggestion of having a tab showing all the top games of the entire server (perhaps with an option for a minimum rank of the players for the game to be shown in this tab)? I could swear I saw this option mentioned in the kgs status page... or at least the kgs plans page... or somewhere, but for some reason I can't find it anymore anywhere (nor I can find such a feature in the latest version of the program itself). This is odd.
This feature would be extremely handy for those (like me) who want to watch top-player games. Not all of them are played in the English room.
If I'm missing something, please feel free to remove this entry.
- wms: Oops. It was planned for an older release (2.5.6?). Then it got pushed off. I hope to do it for 2.5.9 now. I'll put it back into plans.
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