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Kami No Itte
    Keywords: Theory, Go term

Literally means 'God's move' in Japanese. I think it means perfect play.

Hikaru no Go fans will probably be more familiar with the phrase 'The Hand of God', which Sai is striving to achieve - as should all Go players!

Of the deshi here, Bill Spight is probably closest; at least in the endgame :-)

Bill: Please, no. Sometimes, with study, I can find the largest play in a small area. Nothing deserving such praise.
In a real game, if I make the right play it is probably an accident.

In [ext] Rob van Zeijst's column, Otake Hideo is quoted as saying that he would need to take three or four stones from God.

moonprince: Other authors on this page have summarized the meaning of kami no itte, but I thought people might be interested in a more detailed explanation. The word itte has te (hand) as its root, it literally means 'one hand' and can be directly translated into English as 'move', as in a 'move in a game'. Shougi as well as go uses the term. There is nothing mystical about this meaning. The word 'kami' which is often translated as 'god' is more complicated. It literally means 'superior', and by extension, 'upper,' 'above', 'very good', 'sacred', etc. In other words, the Japanese kami are the 'superior ones', not exactly 'gods' like the word means in English, but things that inspire awe in humans.[1]

The term 'kami no itte' could be directly translated into English as 'the superior move'. Or, as we usually say in English, 'the best move.' But the connotations of the word 'kami' give it a different taste, which results in it being translated as 'the hand of God'. Perhaps the most correct translation would be 'the move whose sheer perfection inspires an almost religious awe in those who witness it', but this is way too cumbersome for easy use ^_^

exswoo I think you're assuming too much from the Japanese word kami here. While it's true that Japanese gods of lore aren't as omnipotent as god in Islam/Christianity, it would be a mistake to generalize this to mean that the word kami does not imply perfection/holiness.

For example, Japanese Christians use the term kami as well, and I doubt they will share your beliefs on what the word means.

If you want to take a Western example, think back to Greek/Roman/Norse gods, which we still call gods even though they aren't examples of "sheer perfection".

So...to get back to the term kami no itte, this would have to mean the perfect move, although "The Hand of God" is clearly a mistranslation.

John Fairbairn The most exact translation of kami is numen, and so kami no = numinous. To a Japanese kami no itte in a go context refers to divine moves (plural) so "perfect play" is probably as good as we'll ever get in English. But kami no itte is also used outside go for the protecting hand of the gods, so the Hand of God is not so far off. Since we don't know the eventual denouement of Hikaru no Go, we can't say that this meaning will not become explicit. But without that, it seems to me pretty obvious that Sai is providing the the protective hand of the gods/spirits (he is one himself after all) for Shindo-kun. The admittedly rather awkward phrase Hand of God seems the best solution in the circumstances.

exswoo I'm not so sure about the ambiguity of the term when it's used in Go. Actually, I did some more research on-line to see what other Japanese sites have to say about this and found....

A) Kami no Itte is a also a term that is used in shogi, as well as other board games.

B) A personal webpage at [ext] http://www.diana.dti.ne.jp/~kaney/index.html defines Kami no Itte as: (slight paraphrasing here) "A series of moves or a strategy that will guarantee a victory (for Black).

C) Other websites I browsed through seemed to agree with this definition (for example, a couple discussed the possibility of a creating a Kami no Itte AI for classic board games).

So, to sum up, the overwhelming consensus is that Kami no Itte refers to perfect play in a game (Which means that we spent a long time getting to the most obvious conclusion :) ).

This also explains why Sai felt that Shusaku was the closest person to Kami no Itte, given his legendary reputation with winning as black.

"Kami" more properly should be translated as 'divine' such as divine wind=kamikaze. --TimBrent

"Kami" means "god" and since there's a "no" in "Kami no Itte", I'd translate it as "god's move". "Divine move" would mean practically the same metaphorically, but I wouldn't say it's a more proper translation, since it's not "Kamiitte". --ElDraco


[1] Obviously, whichever meaning is required depends on the kanji used. It's either 神の一手 (move of god) or 上の一手 (upper/superior move). The latter could just as well mean a move on top of another or something ;-).
Surprisingly, a simple query on google reveals absolutely no results with the latter in combination with 碁 (go), whereas a search on 神の一手 gives lots of results, most of 'em related to HikaruNoGo like this one: [ext] http://www.estoys.co.jp/tys/71/71_01_11_00.html.
Consequently, I doubt that 'move of god' is "clearly a mistranslation". Besides, all the anime subs HikaruNoGo translators seem to agree that it's move of god.
I think that this is sufficient proof that the meaning actually is move of god. (or hand of god for that matter) I'll ask my Japanese teacher next class (which is not before june) to see if she knows anything about it (or knows someone who does).
--ElDraco

John F. The second rendering above is not really possible. The kami reading of ue is used only in special contexts such as place names. In any case, as I have said before, the phrase kami no itte is not specific to go and is used in the normal language to mean divine protection (i.e. hand of god). We just have to live with the fact that there is a pun in the original Japanese that we can't easily express in English. My suggestion for an English equivalent is Sai saying "I want to achieve immortality", meaning (1) live for ever - divine protection, (2) everlasting fame - perfect play.

"Perfect play" being the best interpretation then in my opinion. I didn't think it was the second rendering either. ;-) Just wanted to point out that the second, which some people used for translating it, wasn't correct/used. Let's conclude this by saying we find the best free translation for "Kami no Itte" (神の一手) to be "Perfect play" in this context. This was also proposed before. Anyone who's against raise your 右手 (right hand) :).
--ElDraco

RafaelCaetano: Hmm, anyone really considered 上? That's not the point of the discussion, I guess.

The fact that HnG translators use "hand of god" doesn't prove anything. They do make mistakes. I haven't seen the anime but the manga translation is clearly not top quality. You don't have to be a Japanese expert to see that. As a related example, translating "itte" as "hand" is a mistake. Every go player knows it's "move" (I mean "itte" as an isolated word, not "kami no itte").



This is a copy of the living page "Kami No Itte" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2003 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.