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InvasionItinerary

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33PointInvasion
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LadderJoseki

 

4-4 point 3-3 invasion joseki, hane inside cut
Path: InvasionItinerary   · Prev: BlockOnTheWiderSide   · Next: 4463Enclosure33Invasion
  Difficulty: Expert   Keywords: Joseki

[Diagram]
An interesting option

What is the purpose of B1? How should White react?

Alain


[Diagram]
Tricked

I guess I've seen this one before. I think he's trying to trick White into W2; upon which B3 and B5 shut in her stones and make considerable thickness.



DJ: Not only that, a and b are sente for Black. I have created a page for this move as played by top pros. See below for a reference.

[Diagram]
An interesting option

So I think White has to resist with W4. Then W10 sets up a double threat ladder maker.


[Diagram]
An interesting option (continuation)

This is a line of play that comes to mind. Depends on the ladder at a, but Black can sacrifice the BC stones, can't he ? Fairly complicated ...

Dieter



[Diagram]
Sacrifice (1)

Interesting variation, Dieter. I think that if the ladder works for White, this is good enough for her.



If Black is going to sacrifice the stones, he'd better not play at B9 in your diagram (the marked point here), because this stone is going to be worthless once White has captured. It would be better to play at B1 here immediately; or perhaps Black a- White b - B1 - W2. Still the result seems good for White.

[Diagram]
Not a good idea

But what can White do if the ladder does not work for her? The variation shown by Dieter is clearly bad for her in that case. My first intuition was to play at W2 without the atari at a, leading to this variation.



I do however get the impression that this is good for Black: because the three white stones have only two liberties, White b is not sente, and White will have to play one of the circled points to use the aji of these stones.

I do not however see any other good options for White either, so when the ladder works for Black, only the 'Tricked' diagram and this diagram remain for White. Either that, or I have missed something.

[Diagram]
The only move left

If I have missed something, it seems that W2 is the only move we haven't discussed yet. B3 seems like the natural answer, after which W4 and W6 follow.


[Diagram]
Follow-up

This shows the follow-up from the previous diagram. White is locked up in the corner, but the marked stone still has quite some aji. Exchanging White a for Black b would decrease this aji.

-- Andre Engels



[Diagram]
An alternative for Black 3

I like Andre's W2. It has the feeling of a true refutation of a trick move. One question is whether Black can resist more strongly with B3 than in the original diagram. Considering only the corner it does not seem possible. However, there may be a problem...


[Diagram]
Black strong outside

Remembering that the premise behind the 3-3 invasion is that Black has already played on the outside, can White afford to fight hard here or not? Black a now leaves White without two eyes.


[Diagram]
Black fails?

Therefore, after B5, White turns back to W6. However, after W8 it does not look like Black is going to able to contain White.

--DaveSigaty



[Diagram]
A different move

How about W2? This move aims at the cutting point at a. Black cannot take the white stone on the left.


[Diagram]
The strongest path

The "only" continuation would be B1, W2. Then B3 is an attempt to control WC, as well as defending the cut. But W4 cuts there anyway as this brings the aji of WC back to life. As I see it - Black is in trouble.


[Diagram]
The pro continuation

As found through Jansteen's GoBase. Which means my "new" move isn't a new move after all. Hm... Should I be happy or sad?

GoranSiska



dnerra: Be happy, Goran! :) I have another option to discuss:

[Diagram]
The simple way

Could this be good enough sometimes? White is more confined than usual, but Black will have to add one more stone to take W1 off.

(Anyway, Goran's move at a definitely looks more stylish!:)



Phlegmatic If the ladder works for White, this surely makes BC a very poor choice for Black here?

Charles The cut is considered a trick play. It has been seen in pro play, though. It was discussed in an old Go World (reference, someone?).

DJ: Well, yes, I happen to have that Go World: n. 19, June 1980; this move is discussed to some extent, as it was played by Otake (then Meijin) against Sato Masaharu (then 7 dan), in the quarter-final of the third stage of the 4th Kisei.
I have written a page with a short report of that discussion. I decided not to add it here for reasons of space.


[Diagram]
The difference

A very good suggestion. The value of a sacrifice depends on the wholeboard position. When Black takes the stone, his shape is much stronger (naturally ). Black a threatens the corner with ko while White a ends in gote. Therefore Black will most likely get to play a in sente.


[Diagram]
The difference 2

In this diagram W1 or B1 are double sente plays and this situation is likely to be played out fairly early. White is left with a as an endgame move since Black a can be ignored. Note that if W3 is one point lower, Black a is sente.


[Diagram]
Required reading

Depending on outside strength Black may play B1. Because of the strong shape of the black stones White cannot continue with the usual move at a.



It's quite surprising how quickly the whole board considerations come into play.



Path: InvasionItinerary   · Prev: BlockOnTheWiderSide   · Next: 4463Enclosure33Invasion
This is a copy of the living page "4-4 point 3-3 invasion joseki, hane inside cut" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2003 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.