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Messages to People Currently Present in the Library
2003 August 25 Tristan: I would like to make Micro Tesuji Dictionary? by taking one example of each kind of tesuji from the Segoe Tesuji Dictionary. However, that means lifting about 25 or more examples from this book. Considering that the book contains hundreds of problems, would this constitute "fair usage" or piracy? I was hoping a Micro Tesuji Dictionary? would encourage others to buy the book by providing a taste of it, as well as being useful in its own right. Please advise! Hu: I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV. I personally would be inclined against Tristan's suggestion, but thoroughly endorse the energy and spirit of it as I write in these paragraphs. "Lifting" anything approaching a comprehensive survey could easily exceed fair use. My recommendation would be to include a few examples on the SL page about the dictionary, and then to extend the SL pages in other places about tesuji. For example, I was considering starting A Tesuji Dictionary page or a Taxonomy of Tesuji page. But first I consulted the main Tesuji page, where a list of between one and two dozen tesuji can be found. If I were to Wiki Master Edit the page (or to recommend some master edits) I would suggest making the main Tesuji page simpler by defining it, illustrating with a single example of a simple tesuji that can be illustrated clearly in small before and after diagrams, and then some links to specific SL pages that would themselves be main pages for broad areas of the Tesuji topic, probably following the main headings on the Tesuji page. Because SL grows like ivy, it has a tendency toward long pages. Careful scientific measurement of the way people scan and use web pages has shown that they prefer to use, and retain information better from, many brief pages that are thoroughly interlinked; better than fewer longer pages. Thus I recommend that SL start and maintain and grow a thorough and complete Taxonomy of Tesuji. The list on the main Tesuji page would be a starting point, as would be the list mentioned in the Basic Techniques of Go page. As in all cases, if prime examples from books and other sources are digested and understood, then new examples can be created which do the same job, and these can be used to great effect here at SL. -- Hu. Tristan: Your comments are well taken, Hu, but I think maybe a compromise would be the answer. I wanted to make something more advanced than the simple, but rather artificial-looking, examples found here already. The SegoeTesujiDictionary, on the other hand, is a fabulous source of tesuji in their natural habitat (i.e., real positions). You suggest composing one's own examples, but I am wary about doing this, since for me to come up with positions that both look natural and contain no errors is not an easy matter. Also, you might like to bear in mind that Segoe himself collected his examples from all kinds of sources, including games published in newspapers, and so he can hardly be regarded as the "composer". Nevertheless, I believe that there are some issues involving selections and anthologies of material (i.e., the material itself can be out of copyright but the running order and choices of material in them can be copyright). Therefore, I suggest using some examples from the SegoeTesujiDictionary and others from the FujisawaTesujiDictionary, with the odd position from elsewhere. Bill: I am not a lawyer, either, but I am familiar with the practice of fair use. Excerpting alone is not fair use. That's why schools pay royalties for readers consisting of excerpts. It does not matter how little you excerpt, except that taking too much may cease to be excerpting. A good example of fair use is my discussion of positions from Kano's Yose Dictionary on Double Sente is Relative. Tristan, if you want to use examples from real positions, why don't you do that? Kombilo might help you find them. As for Segoe's use of real positions, you might make an argument for lifting one from the book, if you know that's where he got it, but that would not apply to the analysis. 2003 August 22 Velobici: Please review Japanese Byo Yomi and Japanese Title Match Time System. I have attemtped a master edit on the former page and ended up splitting it, creating the latter page in the process. Velobici: Started to create the Beginner Exercise 148 Solution? page explaining in detail how to solve the life and death problem. Why each move must be played and the rules of procedure for solving life and death problems. It seemed to become so pedantic that I stopped. Is this covered elsewhere here at SL? Is this type of detailed explanation valuable? This is what it was about:
Analysis: This is a life and death problem. The first rule of life and death problems is: live immediately if possible/prevent immediate life. a is an eye point. If White plays at a, she will live immediately. Therefore, Black's first move must be at a.
The idea was to continue in this form, creating a new diagram after each move, explaining the options and the result of each option in turn.
2003 August 21 yoyoma: Does anyone have recommendations for a good free wiki that people can put personal homepages on? My homepage is on freewebs right now, but I would prefer a wiki. This one is great but I don't want to put too much non-go content on it. I've looked at several already but they all have their little problems I don't like.
yoyoma: Ok I found one, the first time I tried this site I got some errors trying to create an account. But after getting by that it seems pretty good. Pupshaw: Hi. I have been lurking here for awhile, but I've decided to come out and ask something. When you find a page damaged by a Wiki vandal how do you restore the page? Some kind of copy and paste procedure? Or am I missing some easy "restore page version XX" button somewhere? Thanks! Morten: This is available to experienced SL deshi. More on UserPreferences. Arno: Just like Morten said: if you set your level to "deshi" you will see a "revive previously archived version" below the text box while editing a page. Stefan: Nice and quick kill, Grauniad. Do you also keep their heads nailed to your wall as a trophy? :-) Arno: me thinks that this may be the last we saw from Naruto... >:-> Hu: Has his or her ISP been notified and responded positively? Is Naruto the same as narut0 on KGS? Arno: ISP has been notfied. And SL blocks him. 2003, August 17 Stefan: 12.228.141.176 is back again, and he seems to hold a grudge against Tristan. I propose to throw this WikiVandal out forever. Tristan: Something new: wiki vandalism in the form of attacks on people, namely me. I'm neither angry nor hurt by this; I feel only a very slight pity for whoever is responsible. Why attack me? What's the point? Oh, well, I've got better things to do than think about those questions. unkx80: I propose to ban this vandal permanently too. His attack was vicious, he went to deface pages that fellow deshis have restored, and even attacked my homepage for restoring the pages. Tristan: I can't help wondering how these vandals find out about Sensei's Library. It's not the sort of site you'd find accidentally while browsing for, say, Nu-Death Suicide Aggro-Metal music, so I suppose the perpetrators must be people with some kind of interest in the game, which I find amazing.
Charles: People can arrive via web searches. For example Google for 'wiki vandal' and the SL page comes out top, ahead of phenomene: I'm afraid that SL is victim of its popularity. People often cite SL pages on KGS for teaching purposes, and this gives bad ideas to some. For instance, the recent vandal "Chatouille" with IP address at Bordeaux (France) is likely to be the KGS user with the same name and from the same town. 2003 August 11 SGB: Why are all the pages listed on PagesByDistance not links?
Velobici: Is there a bug in the script that produces page diffs? The recent change to Hikaru no Go added a link to jazzmess (note the leading j). The Deebster: That's because the edit did say that. Shortly after, a different user (Scryer) edited it to be correct, but as he had ticked the minor edit option, you didn't see it in Recent Changes. Hu: I have edited the 4-5 point Josekis page. I diagonally reflected most of the diagrams to keep them all oriented the same way with respect to the 4-5 move. I did this by copying them in the text, working on the duplicate and only deleting the original when I was satisfied that the preview was correct. I then trimmed them to all the same width so that they have at least one blank line on the right, and so that they could be scanned easily, almost like an animation; all except one that was extra wide. Then I trimmed the heights so that there is a single blank line under the bottom-most stone. The reason I did this was because when I went looking for an appropriate page to reference on the Big Bulge page, I was forced to do different reflections in several places on the page. After making the diagrams conform, I quickly in seconds was able to conclude that the page reference I was looking for was not among the diagrams. I haven't checked to see if it might be on a subservient page. Perhaps the title should be changed to Joseki (no 's') to fit with current SL standards. (I'd have to be made a Librarian to make the title change, by myself, and all referring pages). Question: The Ishida Joseki Dictionary has all the diagrams in the upper right corner of the board, agreeing with the long-standing tradition of Black playing the first move in the upper right (from Black's perspective). Would this be a desirable standard for all joseki diagrams? (No I'm not volunteering to change them all, but it might be something to gradually transform to.) Question: The Ishida Joseki Dictionary uses 5-4 for what SL is calling 4-5. If this was discussed, could I be directed to the discussion page? 2003 August 9 Scartol: A small matter -- how about we put PagesForBeginners at the top of StartingPoints? I think it's a good idea to make PFB as easy for new players to find as possible.. 2003 August 5 Confused: Someone from 12.228.141.176 took offense at our Hikaru No Go page and removed the content. I preferred the old page and restored it. Stefan: This WikiVandal attacked GoBooks and ModernJosekiAndFuseki as well. I've blocked the IP address. 2003 July 30 There is now a SL Room over at KGS, I just now created it. -- Tim Brent -- (Sensei's Library, under Social Rooms, in the Rooms menu). 2003 July 27 Blake: mgoetze, I'm having a bit of a net problem and can't seem to get to KGS. As soon as I can I'll be back in to resume the game, or we can finish later :) mgoetze: Actually, I think KGS was having the net problem (too many of these recently :/), and is back now. 2003 July 22 Dieter: Charles, congratulations on what seems to have been a massive effort. Charles Thanks. Actually I had a very good time, teaching also Othello, shogi and Tantrix to quite large numbers. amc Is this about the Uganda thing? I read about it on your page, congrats. Did you have the opportunity to learn any of the local games? I don't know if they play Oware there, or something similar...
Charles The national game is omweso, a four-row mancala game (see for example 2003 July 16 Bill: Just curious. When did the 2-1 point become the 1-2 point? Tristan: Explanation: Dieter created a page on killing techniques and created a link to a new page on the 2-1 point, except that he called it the 1-2 point. As a page already existed on this subject, I made Dieter's new link into an alias. Strangely, the page that already existed also called it the 1-2 point (Strange Things Happen At The One Two Point). Does this matter? ("A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".) Bill: No matter. Never mind. ;-) unkx80: "1-2 point" is consistent with Chinese terminology, I don't see any Chinese literature using "2-1 point". Bill: Hsieh-hsieh. :-) 2003 July 7 Tristan: Hi, Dieter! Have you changed your e-mail address recently? I've been trying to get in touch with you for a while. It would be lovely to hear from you. AlainWettach Someone strangely "edited" the page July26Problem. I hope this was just an accident. I restored the previous version. 2003 July 1 mAsterdam Suddenly 33PointInvasion is blank? I know Charles is working on it (BTW excellent!), and it sometimes happens when I do some long edits on a page that it suddenly becomes an empty page. Now I suspect this is a serverside - bug. This works around it: open the page for editing (?edit=Pagename), make no changes, save it. Arno: anyone else encountered this? Could you be more precise, mAsterdam? I.e. what means "blank", "long", "empty", "suddenly"? What actions (step by step) lead to this bug? (I doubt it is one) mAsterdam I share your doubts, that is why I didn't report it earlier. But now I am sure ther is a bug somewhere, but it may not be server-side. I cannot reproduce it at will. At this very moment when I click 33point invasion this is what I get: (source) <html><body></body></html> That's what I meant with blank/empty. I rebooted, other pages are ok, 33point is still the same (blank). That's why I suspect server-side. It (very rarely) happened to other pages I edited intensively, not using review for some minutes (mAsterdam). This is about as specific as I can get at this time. (two minutes later) Grrrmpf. Now 33point invasion is ok. (even later): I just noticed: 33PointInvasion gives an empty page, 33point invasion works as expected. (two days later): Now they both work. Arno, did you change something? 2003 June 29
Velobici: Some of the Beginner Exerises are "Black to play", others are "White to play", and still others are "Status" problems. Changing all of these to "status" problems more accurately reflects the situation we encounter in actual play. We have to decide if a group needs attention or not, that is whether the group is safe as it stands (ignoring the possibility of trading the group of stones more compensation elsewhere on the board). Thoughts?
unkx80: Personally I have no problems with that, but I have to take into consideration the overall difficulty of the problems. Sometimes, it is also obvious from the problem diagram itself which player is to play, so it does not matter stating "Black to play" or "White to play". Charles I think 'status' problems aren't the best for beginners. A problem that just makes one teaching point is a good problem, in a set of one hundred. mAsterdam Yep. The same position on the board can be used for two or more teaching points, and they don't even have to be close in the learning experience. To re-use it unfortunately you have to copy the board position if you don't want the context to give away clues. I suggest linking the answers for reference and easier maintenance. dnerra: Charles, when talking about moving JF's remarks to a separate page sagari, I mostly meant the explanations given previously on Descent Tesuji. I've moved everything over, I hope the structure makes sense now. 2003 June 25 DougRidgway: On second thought, I don't want to create an alias called area rules? -- it's better captured by area scoring. There's no way for me to fix this, right? Charles I've done the necessary, i.e. de-alias area rules? and mark it for deletion. 2003 June 24 Stefan: unkx80 - RecentChangesJunkiesNightmare (bis). unkx80: Bleah, this is what I get for trying to improve the Beginner Exercises series. =P Dieter: Nice job, unkx. unkx80: The new problems 17, 18, 30, 54, 94 and 122 have been answered correctly. 2003 June 23 Hu: I wish there were a way to retract a major edit and convert it to a minor edit. (Just chagrin on my part, not a serious wish). unkx80: You can do so by editing the Recent Changes page itself. 2003 June 22 4-4 Point High Approach Phlegmatic: I'm looking for a page that deals with the possible follow-ups to the diagram below. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
unkx80: I have attempted to answer your question at 4-4 point high approach. Phlegmatic: Thanks, that's much appreciated - maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but there seems to be a paucity of information on this approach move in SL at the moment... unkx80: You are welcome. =) And you are not wrong either, because I only just created the 4-4 point high approach page. Beginner Exercises unkx80: Some people have mentioned that some problems in the Beginner Exercises series are not at the correct level, and being the major contributor of the questions there, I admit my inability to objectively judge the difficulty of the questions at times, which I offer my apologies again. I am thinking of moving questions that are too hard for the Beginner Exercises series out to other more appopriate places, such as Kyu Exercises, and putting replacement questions there. What do the others think? Currently I have identified questions 17, 18, 30 and 54 as candidates. Dieter: We won't be able to draw a line we all agree on, and that isn't necessary either. I agree with your candidates being moved. If I come across another one, perhaps I can perform such a move and replacement myself. Another issue, which is why I asked Arno about pattern searching on SL, is that after a while and with several contributors, will we still know whether a certain exercise has already been posted ? Charles The series of problems is a big achievement. I suppose it does need a little editing. I have started improving the mark-up, to current standards, and I make small edits as I go through. unkx80: Thanks, and also add problem 94 as a candidate? unkx80: I have moved all five problems to Kyu Exercises, and put in replacement problems. Incidentally, all of the replacement problems are related to ko. 2003 June 21 Jk: I find the title of FamousAmateurGoPlayers ambiguous. I thought I was going to see a list of prominent amateur players who had gained some measure of fame. Instead it's famous people who happen to play go. "Famous People Who Played Go", while more wordy, would be clearer.
Richard Hunter Is there any way to change the title of a page? I just created Basic Japanese for Reading Go Book?, but obviously it should be Books. Charles Now Basic Japanese for reading go books: you need to be a 'librarian' to change titles. Arno: Richard, I can see the kanji - after all they are images :o) Richard Hunter Thanks Charles and Arno. 2003 June 20 Hu: The Punishing Overplays page has potential and will prosper more if linked to from other pages. Currently it is lonely. SL Art Scartol: I hate to be a Whiny Willy, but.. I noticed that the POV-ray image that was advertised recently on rec.games.go has gained a prominent spot on the main SL page -- and rightly so; it's a great image. However, I've also been doing 3D Go art for the past year or so, and contributing to SL on a regular basis too. Shouldn't we support in-house artists too? Surely there's an image on my website that could also be used as prominent decoration? Hu: The idea as you have stated it has merit, but so does the idea of keeping commercial promotion to a minimum at SL. Scartol: Yes, I agree. In fact, I don't think for-profit promotion has any place at all on SL. However, insofar as I've never made -- or tried to make -- one dime from my art, I wonder how this applies to the situation. Hu: My error. I was confused by the ArtOfGo shop you advertise on your page. By actually following the link (which I had been reluctant to do) I see that you have set the prices at the Cafe Press minimum, so apparently you do not receive anything from them and only they benefit monetarily from the relationship. New snapshot Floris: Can a sysadmin generate a new SLSnapShot? Characters Tristan: Does anybody know where I can find some kind of key to unicode for Japanese and Korean characters. I note some of you use them, so please share your wisdom! TIA.
Enough: Like this? Tristan: I can't thank you enough :-)
mAsterdam: Maybe these help, too: Tristan: I have now acquired a chart giving unicode values for katakana, but to my chagrin I cannot work out how to tell SL that a string of numbers is meant to be unicode. I tried looking at other pages with special characters on them, and copied the prefix &# but without joy: c8 does not display the character "to", but only "c8", which ain't what I want. mAsterdam: Somehow the mostly found hexcodes do not appear to work, so ト has to be written as & #12488; to get ト Tristan: Dank u hartelijk. Nu muss ik hexadecimal leren :-( mAsterdam: Cut & paste may help you. BTW Excellent Nederlish? (see Japlish). Tristan: Thanks again. Look at my page and you will see my name spelled out in glittering katakana. BTW, Dutch is just one of the many languages that I mangle. :-) At least, though, I know that the katakana is correct because a Japanese friend helped me to transliterate my name. Tables & euthanasia Tristan: To use a good, authentically English expression, I have made a balls-up of my attempt to launch a page called Principal Study Technique from my homepage by using an alias from the word "which". If somebody could help straighten this out, I would be glad. Also, could somebody convert my data please to a tabular format? I don't know how to make tables in wiki :-( UPDATE: I have managed to sort the alias business out myself, but thanks for your help anyway Confused. Which? is now just a Wiki Orphan waiting for sombody to perform euthanasia upon it (i.e., delete it). Any help with the table formatting would be gratefully received still, thanks. Confused: Tristan, I reformatted the page with a definition list. As far as I know, tables per se aren't supported, the closest would be preformatted text, which doesn't look too great either. WikiGraffiti? mAsterdam: Another Wiki vandal ? 24.175.248.144 "Joking" on Wikinews. Stefan: Yes, but it's a mild sort of vandalism. At least this one didn't delete anything, he just added a funny bit. This is more WikiGraffiti? than vandalism. 2003 June 17 HolIgor: It seems that Dinerstein defeated Wang LC, 9p in the LG cup. I guess that is O Rissei.
phenomene : Yes it is O. More on the Hu: The most recent edit of Yahoo seemed overly severe (and marked as only minor), so I reverted the page, but I'm not going to make a big issue of it if the edits are desired. Deebster: Saccade decided to move the content of Attack and Defence onto Attack and Defense and edit some of the links to the former. Andrew W reverted the Attack and Defen*e pages, and I've reverted all the linking pages.
Wasn't this discussed recently(ish)? I thought the consensus was to leave the 'defense' page refering to the book, and the 'defence' page discussing the subject. mAsterdam: I have seen "- the book" added to prevent confusion with an SL topic.: etcetera. Maybe it is time for "A & D - the book". Which one is the book? Enclosure joseki or Enclosure josekis ? There it might help, too. Done Dieter: Yes let's do that and call it Attack and defense - the book. Next we make ... defense an alias for ... defence. But first we fix the links to the book. Done 2003 June 16 mAsterdam: I have (yet again) a statement/question on nomenclature?. While reading about joseki, pincers, enclosures and kakari I get the impression that these rules (almost/should) constitute a nice, simple convention?: "Height" and "Distance" list moved to board geography. Comments appreciated. Hu: The Board Geography page deserves more visibility by being linked to from appropriate pages. (None come to my mind just at the moment). 2003 June 15 Tristan: Have the fonts and look of SL been altered in the last couple of days? Or is it just my ever-deteriorating eyesight that's deceiving me? Tristan: Hmm, it seems that it's just my computer that's making it look different, as other webpages look changed, too. Maybe I "acquired" some "foistware" (have just run Spybot and removed some bad stuff), but I don't know how to check options for webpage appearance. Any help would be gratefully received. TIA.
tsjanl: The stylesheet defines "sans-serif" as "font-family". That means that the preferences of your browser determine which sans-serif font it will use. There lies the key. How it has to be done exactly depends on your browser and operating system. Mail me privately (sensei@tsja.nl) for more help.
tsjanl: FYI: I have added some tournaments to July2003 and August2003, but forgot to unmark the MinorEdit checkbox. Charles If you do that, it's easy to fix by edting the page again, and saving without 'minor edit'. The change will then show up on RecentChanges, with 'diff' including the previous minor edit. 2003 June 14 mAsterdam to Charles: I would like to move most of the content of the 3-4 point josekis to
and replace it on the 3-4 point josekis page by the appropriate links. That is, if this move does not interfere with your work on josekis. Does it? Charles Well, that page is really the work of Andre Engels. Better find out what he thinks. mAsterdam: The page has grown beyond reasonable page-size. The content will stay the same. I don't think he will object. I saw that you where busy bringing system into the joseki pages at SL and wondered if such a move might jeopardize your efforts. That's the reason why I asked and the reason why I put the intended names here. Charles As far as I'm concerned that page can be subdivided, say into three parts (low, high, other approaches); the only important thing is to make that quite clear on the joseki page. mAsterdam: Ok. Did that (I think). I took three "sub-trees" out of the main 3-4 point josekis page, a fourth would be ok too (maybe later). It is not so huge anymore. 2003 June 13 Tristan I have moved the recent discusssion on English and language to another page called Lively Debate on English. Entertaining though it was, I suspected that it probably does not belong in this part of the library. Now we have a forum for arguing about English usage without clogging up this room! I hope that's alright with everybody. Please don't slap me too hard if it's not. Charles Tristan, discusssion is Gollum-speak. (Later: I see this earned me a WMBT link. It's the way Gollum speaks in the Lord of the Rings: too many 's' sounds - my preciousss ...) mAsterdam: Zenk u. Eye shoo dev noan zet. Andrew Grant: It was entertaining, but I don't think it really belongs in any part of SL (except a page like this where the content is not permanent). This is meant to be a wiki about Go, after all, and the Go content of this page is so tenuous as to be effectively non-existent (someone queried the British spelling of "defence" with a C in "Attack and Defense/Defence"). There are some non-Go pages, such as the discussion of copyright law, that are there for a practical purpose, in this case to try to prevent people from posting copyrighted material and getting Arno and Morten into trouble, but a discussion on spelling? There are plenty of newsgroups out there for that sort of thing. Tristan: Well, if you really, really feel that strongly about it, go ahead and delete the page that I made, but I would like you not to, since it's not doing anybody or anything any harm sitting in its little corner of SL, and somebody might want to look at it now and again. In my view, it's all very well keeping a Wiki strictly on-topic, but on the other hand the occasional diversion can be enjoyable. This isn't an academic forum, you know, but a place where amateurs can discuss their favourite game without fear of getting their heads bitten off - and that, I believe, should entail a certain tolerance toward individual members' bees in the bonnet. This page is pruned in irregular intervals. See the page info and history for previous versions. This is a copy of the living page "Messages to People Currently Present in the Library" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |