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Tewari
Path: SequencingQuestions · Prev: Timing · Next: HowToLieWithTewari
Keywords: Theory
There are two approaches to the concept of tewari.
Examples and opinions welcomed. For limitations see how to lie with tewari. Bill Spight: Here is an example from my recent play:
In two games of mine all players were strong amateurs (U. S. 5-dan plus). In both games the play went the same through
The
Very interesting. I've always wanted to discuss tewari: it is one of the relatively few concepts that approach our western flavour of analysis.
Now, after the criticized move at --Dieter
Well, both
If
Without tewari, we might think that White's play was OK. It solidified the corner and left Black without a clearly live group. But tewari shows us that, even given that -- Bill
I don't agree with your argument. In particular But if White needed to protect that flaw, then
Bill: Since the flaw is going to be protected anyway, the exchange of Authors: Reinhardt: Since there is some argument about the usefulness of the above tewari analysis, I would like to try to provide an example that is more straight-forward.
The question is how should Black respond to White's tsuke? Let's examine Black a.
The problem with
In this position, White peeps at Any time you ignore a peep you can expect to get a worse position locally than if you had responded to it.[1] Therefore, through tewari analysis we can see that a was not the proper response for Black.
Instead, [1] phenomene : I think your analysis is not correct. Tewari analysis must proceed by removing the same number of stones for Black and White. Here all that you show is that in the second diagram, ignoring the peep and playing your sequence leads to the same result than in the first diagram, but this says nothing about the correctness of the play at a. Of course ignoring the peep in Diagram 2 is probably dubious, but in Diagram 1, Black has one less stone to begin with, so he shouldn't expect to get a result as good as if he answered the peep in Diagram 2. In other words, you don't provide a good reference to compare with. With your kind of analysis, one can prove about anything. For instance, invading at the 3-3 point under a hoshi stone is not good, because if ones plays his first play in the corner at the 3-3 point, it is usually bad to tenuki on a shoulder hit approach! Reinhardt: Thank you for pointing out my error in analysis. I stated incorrectly that if Black's response creates a result that is at all worse than the connection response to the peep, then the wrong move has been made. Even the diagram that I provided as a better response results in a less satisfactory position than connecting after the peep. However, it can still be said that not responding to a peep results in a poor position locally, and since Black's response at a results in the same position as not responding to the peep, it is shown to be a poor position locally. The way that it has been shown is through a re-ordering of the moves. Here is a new diagram to make this more clear.
This is the exact same as the Tenuki from a peep? diagram, except that the extra black stone is now
What I tried to prove, but cannot, is that my better diagram is actually better. All I can show is that through tewari analysis, the move at a results in a poor position. It is up to you to decide if you can find a move that results in a better position. I happen to think that I guess my example wasn't as straight forward as I had thought. (: Let me extrapolate a bit further with another example of tewari analysis. Black's reasoning behind playing a may be expecting a certain White response.
Maybe Black might expect White to pull back at
After re-ordering, we see that this position is the same as if White makes the shoulder hit at So, going back to the original diagram, after White attaches, if Black plays a then White must block the connection instead of pulling back. Black's playing a expecting White to pull back is his error in judgment.
[2] phenomene : I think this is still not correct. Finally the sequence you criticize is a normal one and I doubt you can prove it to be bad by tewari. Your "better" diagram is not better, this is just a different global choice, and which one is best depends on the global position. Path: SequencingQuestions · Prev: Timing · Next: HowToLieWithTewari This is a copy of the living page "Tewari" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |