[Welcome to Sensei's Library!]

StartingPoints
ReferenceSection
About


Aliases (info)
Intermediate

Paths
ForcingAndInitiative

Referenced by
YosuMiru
KanazawaSolution75
SidePatterns

 

Intermediate Plays
Path: ForcingAndInitiative   · Prev: NonLocalMoveVersusALocalMove   · Next: Tenuki
   

A discussion of whether Go has a concept of intermediate moves, to correspond to zwischenzug in chess.

[Diagram]
Diag.: A standard modern opening

This is an example (on the left side) brought up by Denis Feldmann on rec.games.go, in a quite normal opening pattern for modern pros. The game normally continues with White at a, after which Black can complete the joseki sequence in the upper left.

Black 9 does have a function in the way of a probe here. Should it be taken as having the character of an intermediate move, too? Might an ordinary translation into Go terms of the concept be as an interpolated kikashi?

Charles Matthews



I think a key difference between chess and Go in the analysis of this concept is that, in chess, there's a much more "instant" victory condition (checkmate rather than scoring). As an example, if a zwischenzug is a check, it _must_ be answered immediately (by virtue of the rules of the game). In Go, you can make a decision as to how big (i.e. how many points it's worth) a threat (or otherwise forcing) move is - and one might be right to ignore it in a way that one usually can't during a game of chess.

What happens, for example above, if White cuts?

[Diagram]
Diag.: White refuses to be forced

It's not clear to me that answering the approach in the lower left is better for White than this (which is almost certainly not best play for either side, but looks distinctly plausible at my level (8 kyu)). As such, I'm not sure that the low approach is really a forcing move - a probe, yes, but...

Is there some reason the pros invariably answer at a in the first diagram?

- Andrew Walkingshaw



In Andrew's diagram the good style play for Black is b rather than anything else, in the upper left. But it is often better to do nothing at all in an unsettled position.

To try to answer Andrew's question (as corrected by me): this is an orthodox position, and White at a now is the main line. Various fighting options have been tried. The main alternative is to play one line higher. They have mostly stopped doing that, as one can find by searching a database. This is the usual situation of seeing stuff and wondering if it can be made to yield some reasons. If you use the large knight's move enclosure after the approach to 4-4, the 3-3 invasion tends to come very soon. Here White would end up with strength mainly facing up the left side - a difference from the small knight's move enclosure, which yields better influence along the bottom. You have to look at least that deep.

Charles Matthews


Bill Spight: I think that Andrew's suggestion has merit. The cut seems playable to me. We can get there by an alternate route:

[Diagram]
Diag.: Tewari for cut

The shimari at White 6 look fine. But then Black 7 - White 10 seem questionable to me. All of which means that the cut should be playable. :-)
Hmmm. I spoke too soon. White 10 looks too passive, since White has a ladder to capture Black 7. But the exchange in the top left corner probably balances out. I still think that the cut is playable.



Charles Matthews Sure, the cut is playable - made in a number of pro games.



Path: ForcingAndInitiative   · Prev: NonLocalMoveVersusALocalMove   · Next: Tenuki
This is a copy of the living page "Intermediate Plays" at Sensei's Library.
(C) the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.