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JoeSeki

 

Teaching Game 67
PageType: OngoingGame     Keywords: Problem, Question, Proverb

This is a Teaching Game so please add generous comments. Anyone can a question or kibitz. It makes for a good learning experience (and nice reading material for others). Hopefully we see some dan level player with their kibitzes here as well


[Diagram]
Diag.: Latest move marked

[Diagram]
Diag.: Captured stones and komi


[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 71-80


JoeSeki W80: Sorry I was away on Thanksgiving vacation. As much as I think this black group is vulnerable to a sever attack that might kill it, I feel compelled to protect myself. There are a few weakness you could probe at that would give you easy life if I attacked prematurely. So Patience first

DJ Black 79: Yup! I asked because I didn't see your UserName, just the IP address...
Let's see how I'm going to live, then we should count the score again.

JoeSeki W78: Yes I fixed my mistaken numbering.

DJ Black 77: Joe, is it you that corrected the numbered diagram? I assume so, and this is my answer.
What's going on here reminds me quite a lot of what happened in the RS a few moves ago... Oh thy fearful symmetry!

JoeSeki White 76: I think you have some eye shape trouble here. I think this attack on your group is sente and also works with all my stones in the area. The forcing move of Black 73 doesn't look so good right now.

dnerra: Maybe Black 71 was already a bit slow. After all, white can't jump in very deeply. (White a can be stopped with Black 71, e.g.) Instead playing at 72 or b looks more attractive.

DJ Black 75: I cannot come with anything fancier, I have to protect somehow this group and I couldn't find a defensive move that could also play a role in the attack of the three white stones. Attack to be postponed for the time being and maybe forever...
I just hope this doesn't leave me way behind.

JoeSeki White 74: I think I'll attack your bigger group then and settle my white stones as I attack. One stone is not as important as a group. I think I'll settle my stones and take territory as this fight develops. I think Black 73 must be a two-space extension first to a (now B75).

DJ Black 73: I can't resist! I cannot resist! Kikashi first and then...
After White 72 you have more sure territory, but I should manage to get something by attacking the three white stones.
Sorry to have made you wait, but I've been directing the Rome Tournament...

JoeSeki White 72: I think that the game is even, but how the three white stones get resolved will decide the game.

DJ Black 71: To answer your question: yup, I want that territory badly enough... To answer my question: yup, I promised myself to play a calm and collected game, not to go on reckless attacks... ;-)
Now I ask *you* a question: How badly do you want those three stones to live? ;-)))

P.S. If I try to count the territory as it is now, it gives me:

White:
UL 15+
LL 12+
LR 10
CR 5
Total: 42+ plus komi

Black:
UR 37
LC 5+
Total 42+ plus influence

Dead even, I would say! What do you think? Is there any strong player willing to make a better assessment?


[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 61-70


JoeSeki White 70: How badly did you want that territory?

DJ Black 69: For the time being, I'll keep on answering submissively...

JoeSeki White 68 I don't have a clue how to play this middle game.

DJ B67: I've read somewhere this is a submissive sequence, but that was referred to a boshi on the fifth line: I wonder whether taking territory on the fifth line has to be considered such...
I've also considered an aggressive answer at h, but I wasn't that confident I could kill you... ;-)))

JoeSeki Extend left or right. I choose right so as to damage your moyo, and gain thickness in the middle.

DJ Black 65: This is a sort of weird move (but neither have I often seen a cap on the sixth line...), not very aggressive.
Again, it was difficult to choose. I considered the "normal" answer at now 67, but then you would play the classic contact move on the other side, and there's no telling whether I'd manage to keep sente.
I also considered k, an outright aggression that could lead you inside my moyo, but if then I don't manage to kill you...
So I decided for a "no-tricks-mate" move... hoping to keep sente. Decidedly, this is a weird shape...

dnerra: Hmm, I think B67 would have been fine here. If white attaches at l, you can play B65, White m and you cut at Black h. That's a nice fight, with good shape for you and exactly where you want to fight!

AvatarDJFlux: I see the time you took for your next move was well spent: your analysis is definitely thorough, and the move you came up with is very difficult to deal with. For example you're entirely right when you say that if I stick to my moyo you're going to get thickness, and my group to the left could be endangered.
I'm enjoying this game more and more, and I'd really love to see some comments from stronger players, not only for us but for all the lurkers out there... ;-)))
Now it is my turn, and I'll try to match your effort!

JoeSeki White 64 I have been studying this board pattern very closely, and believe it is a perfect problem for discussion. Fundamentally I think White has made a horrible blunder early in the game by letting the white group on the right side become isolated White 38 was probably wrong?, and giving Black such thickness. But we are here, and the problem is where should White play now? White has about 30 points on the board. Black has about 25 with a tremendous moyo possible in the top right. If he closes that off, it's a 50-point gain, and the game is almost resignable. So I looked at the points a-f (f is now White 64) and each deserves some evaluation. Maybe in depth if necessary to clarify the situation.

If I choose a then I think the proper black answer is to settle his stones on the lower side and let the single black stone fend for itself. White's move at a does not develop well.

If I choose b then Black could take a two-space extension as well, but it would be a mistake. White gets profit for free, and then White gets another move. If Black locks down his moyo in the top right then Black gets much more profit than White did; and the black group can still settle with the extension, or run away. So it has choices. Only if Black makes a mistake by following along is b a good move. Black should ignore it.

If I choose c it invites Black to seal his moyo, and that becomes harder to reduce or invade. 50 points for Black, for White 15? Doesn't seem fair.

If I choose d then I am recognizing that invading will be really tough. I intend to run anyway. But where do I run to? My stones are very, very far away. It won't be a pleasant journey for sure. You'll build more thickness to negate what territory I do have, and I think it's pessimistic.

If I choose e then I think it will get swallowed as Black is very strong locally and it's not a good reducing move. It's complex, but I think it's a bad move and not even worth considering.

The general focus of all my attention has been how big a moyo Black might get. If I let him finish it off, then White has a very hard game. So a leaning move or a cap is proper. But a cap on the fourth line? Wow! If you take a knight's move away, then I can play c to see if you really wanted that territory as f (f is now White 64) was not hurt too badly with a knights move. If you chase me out, I'm already on the outside and will get thickness instead and then the moves at a or b might become worthwhile for White. If you ignore it, then I really get to damage the upper right black position. So the problem on how to answer becomes very difficult for Black. I'm not sure about a leaning attack. The cap seems straightforward.

I think if White chooses wrong here, the game is essentially over. This is the kind of position that turns the game one way or another.

I choose f (White 64)

DJ Black 63: I'm afraid I have to patch my shape here. Black 53 was meant to do something that it cannot do anymore, that's why I said I've wasted three moves...

JoeSeki White 62: Definitely sente for you. I think White 54 should be here instead, then this side would be tough for you. But I think you can handle yourself on the left. I think central influence is still important for White. As I look at the game. I see solid white groups, and a few weak black groups. Black 53 is too far away from the bottom stones and will come under attack. and the left side needs to be settled or it will become heavy. Black's moyo is not quite complete yet either, in the top right. I'd like to see the opinion of a stronger player though.


[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 51-60


[Diagram]
Diag.: Black 57 might be aji-keshi

unkx80: I think Black 57 might be best left unplayed for now. Suppose Black plays the marked stone, then Black 1 in this diagram can be quite severe. If White 2 atari, then Black 3 creates a big ko which, in my humble opinion, is favourable for Black. If White 2 sagari at a, then Black can play at b.



DJ Black 59 and 61: You're right. I've been very, very silly. I've hallucinated, I've suffered from wishful thinking, one of my black holes at go.
I've accomplished very little, you're stronger, I'm weaker. I was tempted to play a crazy move but it doesn't work...
I've wasted three moves, I think. This is another of my problems: if I have a good sequence, I get overconfident and make silly mistakes thinking of playing great moves...

JoeSeki White 58 and 60: Yes I'll answer again. I think this will settle my group now though. I'm not sure if these forcing moves were aji keshi or not. If you connect at (59) then I'll play (60) next, so go ahead and fill that in for me and chose your next move as well :)

AvatarDJFlux Black 57: I think I have to play also here, otherwise you can atari at b and get back the whole corner... Will you answer again?

JoeSeki: White 56 For the sake of my corner group, I think I must answer.

AvatarDJFlux Black 55: Another little kikashi here...

JoeSeki White 54: It looks like you're trying to build lots of thickness to control the center. A few more moves are needed to perfect the moyo though, so let's make sure it stays imperfect in sente, while getting thickness myself. What about the lower right? Is it OK if you get another move? I think so. If I had gotten b, (now B55), in - instead of White 52 - then I could clearly say yes. I'm thinking White 54 on the fourth line is for influence or running away; if it was on the third line it'd be for a base or taking territory. So it appears you are not interested in territory right now.

AvatarDJFlux Black 53: I've been wanting to make this move since I was thinking where to play Black 37...
I see it as a bit over-stretching with respect to the "normal" move at a (but if you want to progress you always have to put a little stress in your life...); nonetheless I think it is an interesting move: it should open lot of possibilities for Black and White alike... ;-)
As I said before, I perceive the top left and the left side as miai: the bottom is the place where we both would like to play, isn't it?

JoeSeki: White 52 indeed it is. The best White can do (if Black plays there) is a ko, and it's just too large for White to lose. Black has many more ko threats than White does. The proper way to fight a ko is probably something we should both study! :)

unkx80: A small issue here: White 52 can consider playing at b. It's a way to get a bit more profit while ensuring life. =)
JoeSeki: Good eye on that one. I saw it in the life and death problem but forgot all about it in the resumption of the game. That's a big move.

AvatarDJFlux Black 51: Look, I think this move should be sente against your group on the lower side, unless you want to be faced with a serious ko there (with a hypnotic tone of voice: I order you to believe meee...).
I pondered for a long time whether to attack you directly at the vital point, but this is a more solid way of playing (it leaves you fewer ko threats).


[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 41-50




This is a copy of the living page "Teaching Game 67" at Sensei's Library.
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