Being presumptuous


Warp: Sometimes people send presumptuous messages during an internet game. For example, if they think they have already won, they might say "thanks" even though the game is still going on, like expecting their opponent to resign. I once played against someone who killed a big group of mine and did that, ie. said "thanks" clearly expecting me to resign; however, I proceeded with the game, killed an even bigger group of his and won the game. I made a more or less humoristic remark after the game about his "thanks" and he apologized. However, I think it can be seen as impolite and a bad habit.

An even worse thing to do is to mock your opponent. It happened to me recently that my opponent found a clever move letting him win the game and he said to me "hehehe". I was so pissed off by this mocking and presumptuousness that I left the game. I'm certainly not an escaper, but just had to do it this time. I couldn't even give him the pleasure of resigning.

ilan: Thanks for this description of what goes on in the mind of an escaper, that is, the rationalisations for this action.

  • Warp: Btw, just for the record, the game I escaped was a free 9x9 game which had no relevance in anything. If it had been a ranked 19x19 game I would have not escaped.
  • gogogirl: Openly laughing about the loss of someone (perhaps we should assume that gogogirl means to say someone's loss of a game as opposed to the loss of someone which implies that the person died.), who is not your close and silly minded friend or relative, is always rude, no matter the circumstances. I would probably overreact as well, albeit maybe just write some sort of comment like "I quit this type of game" or something, and then resign. There is no reason to count such a "resign" as a real loss after this nonsense. That type of guy is not really worth playing.

Notochord: Other talk about 'hehehe' aside, perhaps your opponent felt the same way too; perhaps if it were a ranked 19x19 game, he might have felt it appropriate to be more formal. If the game has no relevance to anything, then it is hard to feel offended at someone's seeming gloating, since there ain't much to gloat over. I think that you can't deny the valence of your actions while making the other's hard offense. The story is: your opponent perhaps felt a bit boastful (though maybe not, since I am not him), and made a remark that was slightly to somewhat rude (depending on your view). This offended you a little to a lot (I'm not you, so can't know), made you feel perhaps a bit indignant (though again, dunno for sure) and caused you to do something that was slightly to somewhat rude (depending on view) in turn. There is nothing at all wrong with being a bit egocentric (it is your life after all, which you experience through yourself), but I think that removing the self (best we can) when analyzing these sorts of situations leads to a basic conclusion: not so big, therefore let it fly. Feel free to delete my blathering as appropriate.

Alex Weldon: Well, habitual escapers often don't need a reason - they'll escape when losing a game fair and square, without their opponent saying anything at all. However, I can see how a perceived insult or "unfair" play (repeated ridiculous invasions eventually causing a blunder, or denying an undo for a move that is clearly a misclick) might cause an ordinary (non-escaping) player to want to escape.

That said, I'm not sure "hehehe" is really sufficiently insulting to warrant an escape. I've heard people chuckle in pleasure at the board, when a particularly clever move springs to mind, and I've used a single "heh" online when a complicated sequence had an unexpected and dramatic outcome (either in my favour or my opponent's). I've also had people use ":)" or ";)" when surprising me with a tesuji or when I've made a silly blunder, and responded in kind with ":(" without having felt I'd been insulted.

ilan: I don't think there is that much to complain about concerning rude go players. They are infinitely more polite than chess players, which is why I eventually limited my chess playing to the internet and even there, mostly played computers (though you could imagine some typical chess player including rude stuff for his program to say when it is winning).

Alex Weldon: It's a different culture, though. Chess is supposed to be an aggressive, bloodthirsty game and psyching out your opponent and talking in terms like TDF (Trap, Dominate... and I can't say what the last one is, because this is a family website) is considered part of the game, from what chess-playing friends have told me. Go is supposed to be more enlightened, and you're supposed to respect your opponent. Insulting your opponent in Go is like tackling your opponent in croquet - what's par for the course in one activity is unacceptable in another.

Tamsin: The best way to handle a gloating comment or similar rudeness is to go on and win the game, or if you don't do that, to wait until another occasion and win then. Of course, if you repay the rude comment with a similar one, then you have just made yourself as bad or ridiculous as your opponent. Another good way, particularly over the board, would be to say politely "Please don't talk during the game". If somebody online won't be quiet, you don't have to play with them again, and if you're in a tournament and it's really bothering you, then you can always ask the referee for help.

Vincent: When you're online you can't see someones facial expression and body language or hear their tone of voice. This can result in miscommunication. So I always give the person I'm chatting with the benefit of the doubt and assume they mean well.

OneWeirdDude: I must confess, bragging has always been a weakness of mine. But hey, if I truly and unavoidably have won long before the game is over, like I kill a group so big it's not even funny (for my opponent; but it's funny for me) cannot I say it? Especially if I whitewashed a major part of the board on a smaller board or something.

thanatos13: Almost everyone is on quiet mode so I'd rather get people gloating to see that they're alive so that they might give some feedback and so i cansay omg, that was stupid of me. Although I'd like to see someone tackle another in croquet :)

heather: Is this really as much of a problem as pages like this and Insulting your opponent would have one believe? Never having played with humans online, I deliberately chose WBaduk for its high percentage of East Asian users as a result of what I'd read about here. The Chinese servers always have loads of people on them, none of whom appear to speak English. I can't understand their Chinese comments and so just assume that they're commending my outstanding plays. I don't even get the little emoticons and smilies they use. Does a sun behind two cactuses mean that they're expecting to make a comeback, or that they're complimenting my well-thought-out plays? I don't know and I don't care. The language barrier assures that the only communication between us occurs on the goban, which is the only thing that I wanted in the first place.

MrMormon: "repeated ridiculous invasions eventually causing a blunder" is hardly unfair play if it works. Go is a game. It's culture is an opinion unless it interferes with having fun (unless the lack of fun comes from losing).

Being presumptuous last edited by MrMormon on August 10, 2011 - 20:33
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