There Is No Territory In The Center

    Keywords: Strategy, Proverb

This page is in need of attention.
Reason: This embarrassing vanity affair must be rewritten to a general (pro) consensus to what this proverb means


%there are also contradictions on the page: is there, or is there not territory in the centre?

There is no territory in the centre

This proverb serves to make players aware of the fact that endgame plays in the corner and at the side are usually larger than the plays available in the centre. A move in the centre often looks larger than it really is.

Applying this proverb, I found myself losing games, because my opponent made a lot of points in the centre that I did not count, because, after all there is no territory in the centre !

There is territory in the centre. If your opponent has a lot of influence in the centre, I think we have to add something extra to his score, not only because this influence affects the neighbouring groups, but also because there is some territory for him to form in that area.

Classical example of center versus side territory

--DieterVerhofstadt


There is a Chinese Go proverb that translates into:

    Corner is gold, Edge is silver, center is grass

It means that territory in the corner is the easiest to surround, followed by the edge, and the center is the hardest place to get territory. Thus I believe that the proverb

    There is no territory in the center

means the same thing. For the Chinese proverb, it refers to the moves made in the opening. So if I have guessed correctly, the English proverb should refer also to the opening moves...

However, I will admit that this proverb will come in handy in the early to middle stages of the endgame. Books written by professional players often comment that big endgame moves are usually found in the edge or corner. Yet, this is not as though there is really no territory in the center in the most literal sense, and thus counting is necessary.

Remember that a proverb is only a general guide, it is never 100% correct. It is important to know when to use it, and when not to. Do not apply a proverb blindly.

--unkx80


Sometimes there is a little territory in the center


The version I have always heard (at times to my detriment) is "The center is just dame". - TimBrent


Shouldn't someone go ask Takemiya Masaki if there's any territory in the center? TB, who's not Tim Brent.

dnerra: Well, a proverb is a proverb, and a truth is a truth. I've always more or less automatically tried to translate a proverb into something more meaningful. Examples:

  • "There is no territory in the center." means "Most amateurs overestimate the territorial value of center moves."
  • "If there are less than 15 stones in danger, play tenuki." means: "Well, if a group of you is in danger, and it is a burden to defend it, and it is less than 10 stones, than you should at least consider for a moment whether it might be better to surrender it, maybe trying to get influence while the opponent is busy capturing it."
  • "Ikken tobi is never wrong." means: "If you have a weak stone, and you have to run away, the default move you consider is an ikken tobi. But of course look for special circumstance which might favor other moves."

Anyone to continue the list? :-)

  • "Corner is gold, Edge is silver, center is grass": Gold and silver are there for the taking -- but if you want gold from grass, you must learn to farm it. se

Consider another thing : many proverbs are not really up to date. Many improvements and revolutions have come in the last 400 years. "Corner is gold, Edge is silver, center is grass" is an excellent example of that-- it is probably completly innacurate since Honinbo Dosaku ! Today, some 9-dan professionnals have a strategy that emphasizes influence and center territory.

We must probably think this proberb in a complete different way : "There is no immediate territory in the center, their is influence (that could become territory later)." I'm only an 18-kyu player, but I think that playing like a noob for making territory in the center is not the same thing as playing for influence and long-term goals.

For the beginner, this can convert to: "until you really understand influence and direction of play, the center is grass, the edge is silver and the corner is gold" or "don't play for the center if you can't play influence".

-- Astaldo?

I actually find that it can be fun to pursue center territory in lower-handicap games as white (fewer 5 stones). Not only does it work well should black try to chase you out into the center, but it also works well for me with 'divide and conquer'. As Black struggles to secure his territory against encroachment or attack, White presses down on Black's groups and walls off the center--in sente. Sure, it exploits the intimidation that white applies on the black with every move, which is a bad habit, but it sure is a good time. The center is also a place to grab territory when your opponent doesn't expect it. For me, center territory sometimes starts to appear when I go after weak groups. I even made you a pretty picture.

--Warder05 14K, KGS

Tamsin: I get the feeling that territory in the centre comes best as a by-product of controlling the centre (by sealing the opponent in) and using that control to make threats. The territory is your indirect reward for playing in that way.

But if you try to make territory in the centre directly, then it just gets smaller.

I think I shall go and look at some games by Takemiya and ask myself some questions. Are his moyo built to make territory or are they constructed while pursuing other ends?

Maruseru: Mindzine published an [ext] article on Takemiya's moyangs; you might find it interesting. To quote:

Takemiya never consciously thinks about deploying moyos - if he did, they would be too easy to foil. They just happen "naturally" but are not a precondition for success of his style. With deliberately planned moyos it is too difficult to cast a secure net, and with fellow pros being so good at fighting, the slightest chink in the moyo will be mercilessly exploited. But naturally developing moyos lack this brittleness and have inherent flexibility. Though people call his moyos cosmic they are actually rooted in the soil of large territories.

Understanding this is of prime importance. Too many amateurs make large moyos and think they are following Takemiya's style. They are not.


This is a copy of the living page "There Is No Territory In The Center" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2014 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.
[Welcome to Sensei's Library!]
StartingPoints
ReferenceSection
About