4464 enclosure 3-3 invasion

  Difficulty: Advanced   Keywords: MiddleGame, Joseki, Question

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Table of contents Table of diagrams
Joseki
Black tries to kill
Black fails
Continuation 1, is White alive?
Continuation 2, is White alive?
Continuation 2, White makes two eyes
Continuation 2c, connect and die (6 at 3)
Continuation 2d, White dies
White escapes or lives I
White escapes or lives II
Joseki II, part 1
Joseki II, part 2
Lee Chang Ho - Yoda Norimoto. 13th June 2004.
Lee Chang Ho - Yoda Norimoto. 13th June 2004.
Lee Chang Ho - Yoda Norimoto. 13th June 2004.



Push through and cut
Basic situation
Letting White connect
Letting White live
White lives too

Without approach move

[Diagram]

Joseki

This is the standard joseki for the 3-3 invasion after a 4-4 6-4 corner enclosure.

[Diagram]

Black tries to kill

If black resists with B1...

[Diagram]

Black fails

After W1 - B10, white has both 'a' and 'b'.

Of course, going back to the original diagram, this means that if black adds another stone almost anywhere in this area, it forces white to respond with his corner group or else black will play B1 and make the corner a ko for life.

NormanP: How would B1 be a ko in that case? Wouldn't it just kill?


Prior Discussion

Jesusin: This is a diagram from the book "Get strong at invading". It is a middle game joseki. There are other possibilities for B4.

The text (answer to problem 107) says White is alive after the sequence.

But I do not seem to find this group alive. Here are my variations:

[Diagram]

Continuation 1, is White alive?

Up to W9 White is dead. If White a next, then Black b.

What am I missing?


Charles Matthews Try W6 at B7, as in Continuation 2, but after playing White b, Black a. Black is short of liberties. If Black is very strong locally it may be possible to kill White after White comes out at W8. For example, the game between Fujisawa Hideyuki and Go Seigen, 1973-11-18.


[Diagram]

Continuation 2, is White alive?

Up to B9 White is dead. If White a next, then Black b.

What am I missing?

Andrew Walkingshaw: What if, instead of a...

[Diagram]

Continuation 2, White makes two eyes

White plays at W1 here, living locally through W5. If, instead, Black tries the play at B2 below:



[Diagram]

Continuation 2c, connect and die (6 at 3)

White can play as shown here, catching the outside stones and making an eye on the edge.


Jesusin: Thank you very much, Charles and Andrew.


[Diagram]

Continuation 2d, White dies

Olo: After B7 white dies. White can live only if have not played W2 before.


[Diagram]

White escapes or lives I

[Diagram]

White escapes or lives II

Hans: White should hold the cut (2 in Continutation 1,2) in reserve. Then white can escape or -if black prevents this- live as shown in the 2 diagrams above.


For the sake of completeness I will show the other variation for B4 in the first diagram:

[Diagram]

Joseki II, part 1

[Diagram]

Joseki II, part 2


Just to make this page complete I would like to bring up a situation from a game between Lee ChangHo - Yoda Norimoto. This was played in the 2nd Round of the Teda Cup on the 13th June 2004.

[Diagram]

Lee Chang Ho - Yoda Norimoto. 13th June 2004.

[Diagram]

Lee Chang Ho - Yoda Norimoto. 13th June 2004.

I guess if B1 then W2?

[Diagram]

Lee Chang Ho - Yoda Norimoto. 13th June 2004.

If the previous diagram is ok, then why didn't black play it ... because later on in the game white played the following moves. These would not have been possible.


[Diagram]

This B9 following after W2 is often seen at lower levels. White's J+1 group is alive.

[Diagram]

However, I can not find a refutation for W2. It seems to me that blacks position crumbles after white a.

--Markus Koivisto?

[Diagram]

Dieter: B3, depending on the surroundings.

[Diagram]

Push through and cut

Bill: And now?

With approach move

[Diagram]

Basic situation

(Moved here from Changing Fuseki Dogmas, which exchanging B and W for consistency with previous section.)

Even after the approach move W1, the 3-3 point still available to White. Why?


Niklaus: Three main responses for Black:

[Diagram]

Letting White connect

The first one just lets White connect and reduce the corner. (B4 at W5 is possible too)


[Diagram]

Letting White live

The second one aims at attacking the White stones on the outside, but letting him live in the corner.


[Diagram]

White lives too

The third one is the most complicated of all. White is able to live too with correct play and the White stones on the outside are not as weak as with the previous variation.



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