Play away from thickness
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This is a very important proverb, but it should not be misunderstood.
The next diagram is a good illustration. When speaking of thickness, the examples coming to mind usually involve impressive walls. Here doesn't make a wall at all, but it is certainly part of a thick group which has influence on the upper part of the board.[1]
Neither Black or White should consider this part of the board as important, at least in the beginning phase of the game. Why is that so? For White, the side is uninteresting because the marked stone is low and no really big potential territory can be developed. For Black, a move around a would be a natural development from the hoshi stone , but White could easily invade at e and live without fearing any consequences for her strong group.
dnerra: I don't think White should be considered thick here[3]. The point is rather that White is low and solid. Hence the upper side is not so interesting, and usually c will be larger than e.[2] Note that Black d is often a good move, since it allows a few interesting follow-ups. This could not be the case if White were rightfully considered thick.
Actually, the proverb should state: don't try to build a position too close to your opponent's thickness. The proverb also applies to your own thickness. If you build two strong groups in the same area of the board, you somehow duplicate your efforts, which is not efficient.
Jasonred Doesn't one group make the other stronger, with the chance to connect and mutual killing of enemy invasions?
Charles Matthews There is no remedy for Overconcentrated shape. It is normally better to be spread too thinly, because you can fix that later.
Velobici: Seems like we need some text explaining how this maxim and the maxim Make both ends strong are compatible. Something that might talk about the two ends of Make both ends strong not being groups and the ends can can be expected to join into one group or severely attack an attempt to prevent them from joining. Could a dan level player add this explanation?
Kungfu : "Stay away from thickness" has a dual meaning. Consider the game below:
White to move.
White might think that a move around b is terrible and she's probably right: there are other moves. But it is also against the saying "play away from thickness" for Black to move at b or c himself.
For the same reason, a move around a is also bad for White in this situation. An approach move around d or e is better than a for White because "stay away from thickness" means stay away from your own thickness as well.
Floris?: I don't think a white move at 'b' is bad. Looking at the board position, in my opinion a move at 'b' is the only move for w. Why do you think 'b' is so bad?
Bill: I wouldn't call b bad, but compare the prospects of Wb vs. Wd. Also consider the prospects for Bf or Bg vs. Bb or thereabouts.
Floris?: I have considered 'Wd' but my opinion is that white will be faced with: A) A boring game B) Running after the fact that he is behind the entire game, resulting in a loss for him.
I believe that black is in a much better position and that white shouldn't sit still and let it keep getting bigger.
Bill: Black's advantage should not obscure the point of this page. Therefore, I have altered the diagram so that Black's advantage is only one move, the 4-4 point in the bottom right corner. Now that White does not have to play catch-up, it should be clear that Wb is inferior to other kakaris. Charles's suggestion of a wedge on the bottom side (below) is a good one.
Extending from a very thick and obviously 100% alive group is merely point-grabbing. Remember the saying play urgent moves before big moves... Well, extending from a 100% alive/thick group is not urgent. It's just big. So play an urgent move first! And if there are no urgent moves, move into a big space like around d or e.
Charles Matthews The wedge play seems to be an obvious candidate here: if Black is allowed to play at a to form sanrensei that gives him a plan on a larger scale than White can match. The other move I'd consider at first glance is White at b: but if Black plays a pincer the game will proceed at a higher speed, and Black's thick wall above will probably show to greater advantage.
unkx80: I give two examples here. These examples are often used in teaching materials.
Black to play.
plays away from the thickness and at the same time, makes a corner enclosure. The distance from
to the thickness is ideal. Black can aim for a later.
Bill: What about
at b or c?
unkx80: I think these are possible also.
here is overconcentrated.
White to play.
plays away from Black's thickness, and makes a corner enclosure. The effectiveness of Black's thickness is reduced and a Black move at a would be overconcentrated.
Any wider extension, such as , will invite a Black invasion. Allowing a Black invasion implies a loss for White because White will lose territory and gain influence, but the effectiveness of White's influence will be severely reduced by Black's thickness.
[1] The way I learned this proverb is, "Do not approach strength", which is more general. In fact, "Do not play (too) close to strength," is even better, since it applies to one's own strength as well as the opponent's. -- Bill Spight
A variation on this theme is Otake's comment that it is 'bad taste' to expand existing territories. That must be taken with a pinch of salt, of course. -- Charles Matthews
[2] I really recommend against discussions of strategy without whole board diagrams -- unless you really know what you are doing. --dnerra
[3] I think it's fine to say W is thick. See thick territory for a discussion of thickness vs. influence, and the tendency in English to confuse the two. --Alex Weldon
Bill: I think that it is fine to say that White's corner is strong. I would not call it thick. (But the proverb applies, anyway.)
Later: On second thought, I wouldn't call White's corner thin. ;-) So I guess it is thick, but I would not call it thickness.
John F. But the Japanese call it thick. It is, however, atsusa rather than atsumi. See Thickness/Atsusa
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