4-4 point 3-3 invasion, W reverse playing order
Table of contents | Table of diagrams Changing the order W makes a new order Continuation Erasure More accurate? Joseki Not Joseki |
W plays the reverse order
Paul Clarke, 2dan: If White tries to reverse the order in the 3-3invasion, Black may be able to answer with
in the diagram "Changing the order". This lets Black shut White into the corner (particularly as 'a' is Black's sente). White ends up with a smaller corner than in the joseki, and Black may be in a position to make territory on the left. The disadavantage for Black is the aji of the cut at 'b'.
aLegendWai (9k? KGS): Maybe I get something wrong. How about if W exploits the cut on the upper left weakness earlier (like the following diagram shown)?
Paul Clarke: White isn't alive in the corner yet, so cutting with is dubious:
White is dead unless the two Black stones at the top get captured, which looks unlikely.If White uses to live in the corner, Black will play at 2 and capture the cutting stone.
aLegendWai: Thanks so much for your answer.
aLegendWai (9k? KGS): Correct me if wrong.
Why not play at "
"? The weakness at "c" is less dangerous than "b".
Weakness "b" can be exploited with a presence of ladder breaker (no matter how far they are).
Weakness "c" do not affect by ladder breaker. A play at "c" can be captured by a net. The only exception is when there's a stone which is very near to the weakness that it even breaks the net.
Paul Clarke: Playing at the circled point instead of is certainly possible. My reason for selecting
was that the top is probably more important, otherwise Black would initially have blocked the other way. I don't see the net, but even if a White stone at 'c' can be captured, White can use the threat of a play at 'c' to help erase Black's area, e.g.:
However, after the erasure, because of the descent at , Black can turn the White corner into a ko. Please see L+2 group with descent.
Different order
Bill: I think that may be more accurate than an immediate
. If
,
looks good for Black.
After ,
can transpose to joseki, whether Black responds at
or B a.
And then there is this variation. Black is thick and White is a low, but not contained.