Expert

   

I suggest:

I suggest that we (English speakers) call amateur dans "Experts"

Because:

To say:

"I am nidan" makes sense and is concise, but is not English. You might as well say "nidandesu" for all the good it does an English beginner.

"I am a second rank amateur master" is all English, but is terribly awkward, and "amateur master" is contradictory.

Therefore, I propose:

"I am a second rank expert"

We may then save the term "master" for the pros.


Xela: This has an amusing consquence. In English, I would expect a "first rank expert" to be more expert than a "second rank expert"!


Truc: What's wrong with saying something like "I'm two dan"? And if there's any chance of confusion, it can be changed to "I'm amateur two dan" Even if 'dan' isn't an english word, it's part of any english-speaking player vocabulary.


DrStraw: So what do you propose calling professionals? Also an amateur one dan is hardly an expert. I simply refer to myself as 5 dan and if clarification is sought I explain that Go uses the same ranking system as the martial arts and it this is equivalent to 5th degree black belt. This really is not accurate either (because it does not distinguish between 5d and 5p) but for a non Go player it is sufficient.

Bob McGuigan: I suggest that things like this be brought up at the coffee machine rather than create a separate page for it. If there is enough interest then it might be worth moving the discussion to its own page.

Thad: I suggest we call dans what they are called inother japanese arts. For example a nidan can be called a second rank black belt.

RobertJasiek: "expert" is used for the excellent ability to discuss knowledge of a particular field. A top "player" is not supposed to be an expert but to win games. He is a "master" at winning by playing.

tderz: Dan is shorter and much more in use - by time, geography and in different Asian sports - almost unversal (Jap. & Korean: "Dan", Chin.: "duan4").
To me this discussion has the same sex appeal as a law forbidding loanwords, see e.g.
[ext] Toubon_Law
[ext] http://www.lewrockwell.com/sapienza/sapienza27.html
[ext] http://www.us-english.org/foundation/research/olp/viewResearch.asp?CID=59&TID=1.
Computer should become obligatory "Rechenmachine" and "l'ordinateur" (+ "mega-octets", hey .. how come Greek and Latin loanwords are allowed?). Try to prevent with all forces that languages are evolving, by the simple fact that they are spoken and used.

Velobici: As an aside, one might speculate that Greek and Latin are allowed because the Romance Languages are evolved (corrupted?) forms of Latin. The goal seems to be to prevent the infiltration of one modern language (primarily English?) into other European languages (primarly French?). Just imagine the Schadenfreude of the French of each George W. Bush bon mot.

nachtrabe: Coming from a martial arts background this suggestion makes no sense to me simply because an amateur chodan/1 dan is *not* an "expert." What's wrong with calling a 1 dan a 1 dan? We have enough "in terminology" as it is (much of it not in English) and the ranking system is at least more widely understood and somewhat more universal than other Baduk terms.

tderz: besides he author jared and maybe thad I see no one who might be positive vs. this idea.


This is a copy of the living page "Expert" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2005 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.
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