Table of contents |
Dan Argent:I am rather new on KGS and haven't gotten a good feel for schedualing enough time to finish a game yet. There have been to games that I have had to leave from. In both games I was winning by a rather wide margin. I felt that I could not make the other person wait on the result because of my failure. I resigned both games even though I'm pretty sure I would have won. I realise this is not the ideal solution, but I hope that this is less rude than escaping.
Hu: You were very honorable about it, Dan. Alternatively, sometimes one can get agreement from one's opponent to resume at a later time. There is no question that the way you handled is the opposite of rude.
Ekted: There needs to be a system in place to at least label escapers using some trusted system. I don't care if the games count against them. I don't want to waste my time playing if someone is going to quit when they start losing.
Velobici: Escaping and Escapers create frustration for the player winning the game. One doesn't get the reward/affirmation of actually winning, having the other player resign or scoring the game. Perhaps this fustration is the result of misunderstanding. We are not engaged in tournament games. We are playing for the pleasure of playing and to learn how to play better. An escaper is someone who is losing so badly that they can't bear to resign or to score the game. Perhaps its best to count it as a win in one's own mind and move on to another game.
ProtoDeuteric: I do not believe that there is a general misunderstanding of the caliber of the games played on KGS, and I can say that I myself certainly have no such misunderstanding. The frustration comes from the lack of etiquette and the feeling that your time and the development of your games are abused by people who escape after feeling that they have lost. Escaping doesn't make the escaper stronger or better either because they don't rise above adversity. I can barely accept the argument that one should just "count it as a win in one's own mind and move on to another game" because that type of thinking (wrapped up differently) caused the escaper to escape. He "counted it as a LOSS in his mind and moved on (i.e. escaped)."
lusion: As of January 2004 I understand there's a new KGS policy for escapers: games older than a certain period automatically count against whomever left first. But there are problems with this policy.
I'll use myself for example. I have four games on my list where I left first. Two were for a flakey network connect where my opponent was gone when I returned. Two others I was interrupted and had to leave and we agreed to continue later but I haven't seen my opponent since. Under the new KGS policy, if my opponent doesn't come back, all four count as losses against me.
Neil: That's not quite what it says on KGS Status. There it says that the automatic forfeits happen if you have too many incomplete games, as a replacement for the old rank-forfeiture rule.
I support the policy. The needs of those whose opponents "escape" from losses must be balanced against those who need to "escape" from rude opponents.
Joshual000: This policy is excellent. A policy like certainly reflects that of tournement play where leaving a game would result in a loss on time. Not to mention that the added bonuses at KGS include it only happens if you have too many incomplete games *and* there is time to complete an unfinished game before starting another.
(See main page for the plans)
(Sebastian:) This reminds me of the "three strikes - your out" rule. Is this really effective in our case? Wouldn't it be easy for chronic escapers to just create a new account?
xela: The frustrating thing about having people escape against me isn't the lack of a result, it's the fact that the server won't allow players to save the SGF of a game that isn't finished. Could this be changed?
Most escapers don't have pictures, always check your opponents profile before engaging in combat.
Alex Weldon: I doubt that it will be. There's a good reason that you can't save the SGF of an unfinished game or a game in progress. If you could, there'd be a whole new category of cheaters, who leave in the middle of a complex situation or blitz game, take 10 minutes to analyse the situation offline (or consult with a stonger-ranked friend) and then come back and claim that their connection crashed.