![]() StartingPoints Paths Referenced by
|
Use of SGF editors and Computer Go programs during games
Path: PleaseReviewMe · Prev: TerritoryVersusInfluenceStyles · Next: ByoYomi
Keywords: Question, Culture & History
At play-by-email servers (Dragon, etc.) games can last for a very long time; even when they are moving swiftly there can be several minutes between moves. It is quite possible for a player to download the SGF file of a game and loading it onto an SGF editor (like Go Write) or a computer go program that can play out moves. In this manner, someone could play out a sequence of moves, like determining the life-or-death potential of a group. The ethics of this has been discussed on Dragon:
It's probably been talked about elsewhere as well. The question is:
My feeling is, respectively, yes and no. An SGF editor really only provides a visual reference, while a go playing program adds a third wheel which undermines the game. I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks. Daniel-chan Cheyenne: Personally I believe it is very unfair on two counts.
As for using a computer to analyze the game. Figure that the computer is only going to be about 8 or 9 kyu in over all strength (basing my assumption on GnuGo's strength on NNGS). In addition From what I understand of feeding pro games into GnuGo is that GnuGo doesn't find the best plays anyways. So.. to summerize my feelings ... I don't think it is fair. If you do decide to analyze the game (assisted or otherwise) then at least inform your opponent of the fact. mgoetze: Well, I don't know about DGS, but I often use my laptop to record games at real-life tournaments, and none of my opponents have even bothered to look at my screen so far... I could easily look up joseki with Kombilo, but... it's just not ethical, I wouldn't do it even if I were desperate. OTOH, the temptation to use the score estimator is hard to resist sometimes. ;) Bill: A couple of comments: First, computer analysis is in general poor, with the exception of the life and death program, Go Tools, which is very strong. However, it may be that moves may be compared by having the computer play itself thousands of times after each move in question. The results might be at a reasonable amateur level. Second, go has a history of adjourned games at high levels. Nobody thinks that the players did not analyze the positions during the breaks in play, even playing out variations on the board. They might even enlist the help of other players. In a famous game between Honinbo Shusai and Go Seigen Shusai's winning tesuji is rumored to have been found by Shusai's pupil, Maeda Nobuaki. Even if you do not get help, over the board analysis will up the level of your play. Many years ago, when I was 3-dan, I played go by mail against Ted Drange, who was then shodan, on several small boards at once. I knew that Ted had played those boards often against strong players and had analyzed them thoroughly. Essentially, I was playing against a book, if not The Book. I was a bit overconfident, and wrote him that I would not analyze any game over the board. He was quite surprised. I remember lying in bed at night, staring at the ceiling, working through all reasonable variations after move 5 on the 5x7. For that one I showed Ted a new winning line. I lost on the 6x6, however. If I were playing by mail or email, I would expect my opponent to look up joseki, although I would not do so myself. Not that I am so confident, but it really is not much of an advantage. For one thing, you have to choose the right joseki. For another, it is often wrong to play joseki. I certainly would expect him to play out variations, and I would do so myself. Dieter: There are even arguments in favour of getting help during a game. You can remove the ethical question by explicitly permitting this. Here's an excerpt of an interview I took from one of Europe's best players: How to become stronger? (...) Secondly, you can’t do it alone. Only together you can become stronger. In the middle of the eighties we had a two weeks tournament in our country. The games were adjourned. During the break, you could analyse the games and it was not forbidden to receive help from other (stronger) players. Once I played such a game with Z., a 5 dan from P., and it was a tough one. The adjourn?ed position was pretty equal. I knew that Z., L. and B. used to analyze? in team so I had to put up some tough resistance. A joint analysis with D. and S. showed that I would win by half a point, because in the last ko fight I’d have one ko threat more. I have come to understand yose much better after that game ! Path: PleaseReviewMe · Prev: TerritoryVersusInfluenceStyles · Next: ByoYomi This is a copy of the living page "Use of SGF editors and Computer Go programs during games" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |