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Haengma / Discussion
Sub-page of Haengma
Stefan: I start this page as some sort of WikiMasterEdit of a discussion, which unfolded on rec.games.go from mid 2001 onwards, about the Korean concept Haengma. While I reread the discussion, I started to summarise and loosely group some posts. My purpose was to see what practical value or study guidance I could get out of it. As I wrote it anyway, I may as well publish on SL.
[1] Definition of haengma - Attempts, comparison to suji, dynamic nature. [1]. Definition of haengma - Attempts, comparison to suji, dynamic nature.1.1. Definition 1 - "Janice Kim"
(quote) This appears to be a low level comment similar to Kageyama's chapter on what happens when "The stones go walking" in Lessons in the fundamentals. 1.2. Definition 2 - "Charles Matthews", including John Fairbairn comments
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In other words, haengma is the good development of shape at both a local and a global scale.
(quote) One thing is plain (to go back to my old hobby horse): the Korean concept, like suji, is dynamic (haeng means moving) and what I have noticed over the years is that when the related concepts of suji and katachi are discussed, the Orientals emphasise the dynamic (suji) whereas westerners emphasise the static (katachi). I have long wondered whether this is a self-imposed handicap by westerners (allied to the errors of thinking ponnuki means a diamond shape, tesuji a brilliant move, etc) - indeed, is this the single biggest difference between east and west in go?
James Davies recently mentioned to me that he has become increasingly aware of the dynamic nature of the vocabulary of Japanese game commentaries, related often to samurai tales. 1.3. Definition 3 - "Robert Jasiek 1"
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This means that it is about a process and not about something fixed. It is not the same as "shape". It presumes tactical and - as far as the direction of play might require it - strategic reading, selects the best reading sequences for the further development of a strategic object, considers interactions with the further development of other strategic objects, and finally chooses the best further development. Always the positional environment is considered, too. 1.4. Definition 4 - "Robert Jasiek 2". The suji/haengma debate.
(quote) In the same article Robert concludes:
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So in particular as an example, relation to other stones can be a meaning or part of a meaning. Thus there can be haengma of several stones together.
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Still on
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I think there are three aspects to Suji/Haengma, as above.
When used of a player Suji/Haengma means near enough 'style', provided that is understood to mean the flow of the way one plays rather than a predilection for a certain kind of move.
When used of a micro or local position the meaning is, in Japanese, tesuji. This is where Korean differs because they do not have a precise word for tesuji
(quote) I II immediately territory-orientated not immediately territory-orientated static dynamic peaceful fighting settled moving not haengma haengma
(...)
He continues to compare Korean and Japanese go by attributing a higher degree of haengma and flexible functions to the former and of shape and acknowledged technique to the latter.
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This is still too simplifying. Suji, if I understand you correctly, is a shape concept, a concept that gathers shape meanings. On the other hand, haengma is a collective concept gathering shape meanings, strategic meanings, fighting meanings, etc. So to describe all the haengma potential of a stone or stones one must reconsider it after 1, 2, ..., n further moves in a game and include all gained insight. You may say that I over-interpret the concept once more. In practice you might be right because simply no player is able to predict sufficiently profoundly 1, 2, ..., n further moves. However, in theory I think I am right that the intention of haengma goes in that direction and that only practical shortcomings of a player's abilities create restrictions. Hence I repeat that your haengma understanding is a matter of your ability to associate future potential with a stone or stones. As a term haengma is the proclaimed desire to describe such potential as extensively as possible.
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This is not to say the Japanese do not assess future developments, but they seem to do this more by applying different filters such as aji and miai, and in effect apply two or more processes where the Koreans apply only one.
(quote) The kosumi is a good example. We already have had on RGG (from China via S. Africa) the concept of compromised kosumi. The idea that a kosumi is bad shape, if the opponent has already got a stone on one of the diagonal points nearby. This means that the kosumi would have less potential development.
Beginners like to play kosumi because it cannot be cut and it makes them feel safe. Stronger players avoid it because it feels too slow. Very strong players play it when they can see the development potential of it. 1.5. Definition 5 - "Benny S. Chi"
(quote) 1.6. Suji-related remarks
In a
(quote) I repeat, my suggested *translated* meanings which come from the one meaning but three usages of the Japanese are:
1. Dynamic(s), when referring to a global or generalised concept
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The meaning of suji applied to a move in the game of go describes the ability of given move to make itself useful with regard to neighboring stones in move 2 of a sequence which might follow, or move 20. In many situations there is more than one suji move which might mystify the issue a bit but actually does not; the purpose of suji move A can be different from suji move B which is located just one space to the right/left. [2]. What to make of all this? Food for thought.Even if we don't seem to have a conclusive definition, we can isolate a number of characteristics attributed to or associated with haengma:
If there is one thing permeating the discussion, it is the notion that what happens on the go board is a function of time. The one key word is in any case "development". As a concept this is not entirely new to me - the board changes, right? However I have never spent time thinking about how this works, how profound it is and how you build it into the selection of your next move. Until now my thought process in front of the goban has been something like this.
The one thing I'll now try to add to the evaluation process is precisely this notion of time and development, both locally and in context. In other words: if the old thinking was: "How will the local move influence the context, and how does the context influence the local move?", the new thinking also asks: "How will the local move interact with future contexts, and how will future contexts make the local move look?" The influence bit is bidirectional. It is pretty obvious that it is a good thing if the move you play now will work hard in a future whole board position. However less obvious to me is that you also don't want the future whole board positions to make your current local move look bad, oddly placed or inconsistent. It is a form of inefficiency, pros avoid it (to the point of preferring tenuki over such a bad move) and it is the assumption behind tewari analysis. This reminds me of the "virtual groups" thinking, in which you add the interaction of your local move with possible future groups in the area (e.g. nearby standard invasions) to your shopping list considerations. The difference here is that you now also work with "virtual contexts": entire whole board strategic landscapes that may emerge in the future development of the game. This is clearly not an easy thing to do. Personally I already struggle very hard with the relatively simple virtual group concept, but virtual contexts are a couple of orders of magnitude more complex. Also, at this point in time I can't recall having seen any examples or exercises of this type of evaluation and consideration. That is not so surprising, as I've never before looked at the game in this way. It would be great if some fellow deshi could provide some pointers. [3]. Discussion.This is Sensei's Library, right? Fire away! 'The way of food' might be Cooking. If you ask a non-cook or inexperienced cook about cooking, you get answers in terms of ingredients, recipes and (yes) shopping lists. The experienced cook thinks in terms of a meal as a unit, the process of cooking constrained by time considerations, looks around the kitchen for raw materials and starts various preparation processes ... Here 'technique' means the real stuff of cooking, from the boiled egg to the souffle. But it's not just anything. Everything good comes from faith to and knowledge of the raw materials. So it looks to be that way about haengma, if you can actually play ... Dieter: A promising analogy, Charles, but I'm not sure if I'm going to get what you mean after the three times I am about to read it. Stefan: Same here. There is a real risk I start to read all kinds of mysterious advice in your metaphor, and build all kinds of imaginary concepts upon it. :-) Sean: It's a subtle thing, the difference between haengma and suji but perhaps this example will help.
Move 9 will fill where
But all of this ignores the contribution of
Bill: Let's not forget the contribution of
Sean: Well, here's it's easier to say in Japanese. The situation has shaped up the way it has because of the aji of the marked black stone. In the first example it's hard to talk about the aji of a stone that's no longer on the board. BobMcGuigan: I'm a newcomer to the haengma discussion, but I wonder if there is any relation between the Korean term haengma and the Japanese term uchimawashi? Charles Matthews Uchimawashi is a new term to me. A quick web search suggests it is used in martial arts. Could Bob expand on what he means? Bob: I've run across the term in Japanese game commentaries. I think it comes from a combination of "uchi", a noun form of the verb utsu (to play in the go sense), and the noun form "mawashi" of the verb mawasu (to turn, whirl, or spin). Judging from usage in context it seems to refer to moving around the board, playing in different places without settling the shape, i.e. switching from place to place. Bill: Maybe uchimawashi is a kind of haengma. It sounds like a desultory form of haengma, though. ;-) Bob: I guess you could describe it as jumping around, Bill :-) The pro commentator usually refers to it positively as a factor contributing to the winner's success. From what I understand of haengma uchimawashi would only qualify if the practitioner somehow made all the different plays work together. By the way, I remember reading someplace that Iwamoto's go was described as "bean scattering" go. How about that? John Fairbairn The base meaning of uchimawasu is to hit repeatedly, hit a lot, but there is a connotation of doing it skilfully (i.e. while moving round the target). Sometimes you can use a phrase like "leading by the nose". It's not quite as strong as "outplay" but that's sometimes possible. Sometimes "like wrapping someone round your little finger" will do, and that captures some of the flavour of mawasu. Maybe "always being one step ahead". It's not really a technical term, I'd say, as there is no special go meaning attached, though it does occur quite a bit in go. I can't detect any connection with haengma. I wouldn't take the popular bean scattering comments about Iwamoto too seriously - it was also a joke about his time as a coffee farmer. Bob: Thanks, John. I think "one step ahead" might best capture the meaning of the example I saw. It would fit with moving around the board skilfully, getting places ahead of the opponent. Bill: Tenuki is always an option. :-) Exswoo: I recently bought a Korean Go(Baduk) book called "Haengma Master" written by Korean Pro Suh Bong Su (Seo Pong-su) and edited by Park Jae Ouk. Park's preface to the book goes like this... (I'll change the terminology to Japanese ones since that's what most people here are familiar with) "Haengma refers to how the Go(Baduk) stones move. Yet this doesn't mean that stones in Go move like pieces in a game like chess. Haengma refers to the idea that the current stones on the board will dictate the flow of all the future stones that will be played. Thus what is important to realize about Haengma movements is that the goal of Haengma is to maintain a superior position to your opponent by utilizing the stones are that already in place. The most common Haengma moves used in Go are the attachment, diagonal attachment, single space jump, double space jump, the knight's move and the large knight's move. There also exists other moves, such as a three-space jump, but it's fair to say that these six are the main ones. It is essential that you realize that Haengma applies in all stages of the game, whether it be the Fuseki, Joseki, the Mid-game, or the End-game. Go may be made up of multiple stages, but in the end you can see them as all a part of Haengma." Sazn: Does "桂馬" have to do with part of this discussion? 桂馬 is used by Japanese to describe certain jumps This is a copy of the living page "Haengma / Discussion" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |