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BQM177
Path: BigQuestionMark · Prev: BQM176 · Next: BQM178
Keywords: Joseki, Question
In the following position, normally black will play atari at a. I think I understand the moves up to here, but I (14k) am having a hard time determining why black can't simply descend at
Note that if the pincer at
First Question: What would Black like to achieve?
Presumably Black rejected
Black also preferred Pincer 2 below to Pincer 1 here.
Black decided the usual joseki was not interesting.
Note that when Black descends with the pincer at a there is a follow-up play to connect at b. That does not exist with Pincer 2 here. The Black descent is fundamentally less dynamic here.
What if White simply plays Bill: I, too, think that Dave's last diagram is a normal development after Black's sagari. Here is a possible continuation.
Since White has only one stone, This does not mean that the sagari is wrong or unplayable. It is on the passive side, and does not bear much relation to Black's pincer, however. Still, in the variation Dave and I give, White does need to patch up her shape. Also, if the variation in your Joseki diagram is considered an even exchange, Black would be better off with the hasami stone further away from White's strong stones, as in this case. (Do not approach strong stones.) In general, don't worry whether a play is joseki or not. Joseki are standard patterns that typically yield an even exchange (more or less). Depending upon the situation, a joseki play can be bad and a non-joseki play can be good.
Dieter: Bill, I find it intriguing (but not surprising) that you choose this move
I would instinctively play here and see no objections for the natural move. Can you elaborate ? Now that I'm forced to think of it, I can see a couple of reasons :
Bill: Dear Dieter, your reasons seem good to me. :-) Anyway, I am far from an authority on shape, myself. While the keima was my first choice, I also considered the one space jump (never bad, hehe), but rejected it because of the peep at Ba. I also had the following diagram in mind.
I am reminded of a remark of Prof. Berlekamp's during our analysis of the first environmental go game about a play of Rui Nai Wei's, to the effect that she always plays as far away as possible from a tactical situation to achieve her desired effect upon it. I expect that she does not always do that, but doing so ties in with the ideas of work and dual purpose plays. (The danger with trying to do that, OC, is becoming thin.)
After Black protects the corner, he has a major threat with
Charles I think Bill's play is superior to the plain table shape, in this case. I looked at Shape Up? to see what was the closest example to this one. It might be problem 6 in the first problem set (see Path: BigQuestionMark · Prev: BQM176 · Next: BQM178 This is a copy of the living page "BQM177" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |