![]() StartingPoints Referenced by
|
New Zealand Rules / Discussion
Sub-page of NewZealandRules
These are particularly simple rules, although the very similar Tromp-Taylor rules are even more concise. The New Zealand rules use area scoring and situational superko, allow suicide, and specify a komi of 7. The full text[1] of the rules is given in New Zealand Rules and an explantion is given in New Zealand Rules - Explanation.
[1]Hikaru79: The full text? Don't New Zealand rules also have rules for ko, handicap placement, points in seki etc? Also, isn't NZ rules one of the few that allow suicides? I think a more comprehensive and complete rules text for New Zealand rules can be found at : Unicyclist The rules need to be read fairly carefully, as they are rather terse. Yes, that is the full text of the rules, although Barry's page goes on to add a more reader-friendly explanation. But that explanation is not officially part of the rules.
Ko is handled by the restriction of not repeating a previous position. Handicap placement is handled by white passing a number of times. Suicide is handled under play above, i.e. removing your own stones that have no liberties (self-capture) after any capture of opponent's stone(s). Seki is nothing special - just count the stones and the territory they surround. Note that any dame points not surround by a single colour are not counted.
Regarding counting, the general practice here is to count the board as it stands (after removing dead stones). Not moving the stones around means a recount can be done easily without dispute. Firstly, we guess who has the smaller amount to count, then count it off (2, 4, 6, etc...). Since the board has 361 points, 181 wins and 180 loses in handicaps, and in even games black 184 / white 177 is a tie and any more is a win.
Ah, my mistake! You are right, if the rules are read carefully enough, they all come together! =) What an interesting way for the rules to be written-- one page completely explaining what rec.games.go took dozens of pages to say! I apologize. ^^; Andrew Grant: Two questions: How do NZ rules allow winning by resignation? I can't find anything in the rules (as opposed to commentaries, which are not part of the rules) that would imply a right to end the game by resignation.
In the bit about settling disputes over dead stones, what does the statement "If they cannot then agree who shall move next, all stones stay on the board (are alive) and are counted" actually mean? All the stones, including those dead stones whose death is not in dispute? Or just all the stones that are the subject of the dispute?
mgoetze: They don't explicitly allow resignation. But in a casual game, if someone says, I resign, are you going to tell them, hey now, the rules don't allow that? As for a tournament setting, it is up to the tournament rules to recognize wins by resignation - or not, if the tournament happens to have some really exotic system based on margin of victory or something.
Neil: I don't see how resignation is within the scope of the rules. When you resign, you're saying that you do not wish to continue the game and want to give your opponent the credit for the win without playing it out. The rules can only cover the continuation of the game, not what happens when you stop playing and interact with outside things like tournaments and ratings.
As for the disputes, a literal reading of the rules would indeed suggest that all stones are counted as alive when the players cannot agree on whose turn it is, even those which are not disputed. It would make sense to allow those stones which are undisputedly dead to be counted as dead - but - it doesn't make sense for the players not to agree on whose turn it should be in the first place! At least not if the game really was over when they both agreed it was... ;) DougRidgway: Play resumes after a dispute. The players will then play to explicitly remove all dead stones. Everything left on the board after that is defined as alive (unless the players agree). If it's not dead when your opponent goes first, it's not dead, so you should be happy to let your opponent go first in the resumption. I think the stuff about handling when the players can't agree on who is to play next is to deal with situations where the players realize that there are points that they missed before passing. Both players voluntarily gave up their right to move, so the rules should favor neither. It only matters when the points decide the game. This means of handling this situation seems arbitrary, but is symmetrical and therefore fair.
Bill: Wait till Robert Jasiek moves to New Zealand. ;-) Then you'll find that you need to spell out the final dispute resolution procedure more clearly. Robert Jasiek: That has been established since Barry Phease and I discussed that on rec.games.go... DougRidgway: Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see the problem. A dispute is a dispute, isn't it? If I want to resume, I could claim a life-death dispute, and let my opponent go first. It's only a problem if who goes first affects the outcome. In J1989, both players would lose in this case. An arbitrary outcome doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Warp: As far as I know it's not unseen that after both players have passed one of the players spots some weakness somewhere inside his opponent's groups (that is, he could play some tesuji which captures some stones or even perhaps kills a group) which both had missed during the game. Naturally it's the interest of the owner of the weakness to end the game as it is (specially if using territory scoring) but the other would want to continue the game in order to exploit that weakness and get profit (specially if he can win the game thanks to it). I had the impression that in the Japanese rules the one who wants to continue cannot start but the other player gets to play first. This way he can (potentially) spot the weakness and defend it. (If there are no weaknesses he can simply pass, but the important thing is that it is him who gets to move first). I think this is very fair. As I read, with the NZ rules the players must agree who gets to move first. This doesn't sound too fair because in this case both players would want to start (the owner of the weakness to defend it and not lose anything, the other player naturally to get profit from it). If they can't agree, then it seems that no dead stone removal is done. This means that if there's even one single dead stone inside a huge territory, the huge territory becomes basically a seki and the owner of the territory gets no points from it. Doesn't sound fair at all.
This is a copy of the living page "New Zealand Rules / Discussion" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |