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Guinea Pigs' Feedback
Keywords: SL description
On this page you can share and discuss your thoughts about SL's technical features. An index for discussions on other topics is at the Library Lobby. 3rd October 2004 Gedh: I think there may be an issue with the Firefox Browser. Certain pages do not wrap text it would seem. KGSWishlist/hotkeys for instance. I am using Firefox 1.0 Preview Release and Windows XP. I asked on KGS and others have reported the problem using Firefox 1.0/OS x 10.3.5, Firefox 0.9.3/Win 2000, konqueror. Someone mentioned something about /pre tags, but I don't know much about that side of things! Just thought I'd mention it here. Oh, by the way, when editing a page, I can't get 'Preview' to work, either. [?]: Preformatted text (as generated by Senseis when a line starts with a space) is never wrapped. (Sebastian:) This is as it should be. 2004 September 30 Robert Pauli: I see the picture on the front page, but not those on Euclidean Go (using Mozilla Firebird). Any idea ? (Sebastian:) These pictures were created with MS Paint 5.1 (Windows XP SP2 RC3). How about some of the other private pictures? (You can easily find a complete list by searching for "JPG") Froese?: The picture on the front page is stored on Senseis, those on Euclidean Go on an external server (www.helm.org). Maybe you have some adblocker running that cancels those pictures. Furthermore, the pictures had the extension .JPG. I've changed them to .jpg just in case... Robert Pauli: Despite ".jpg" (lower case), I see not a single one on EuclideanGo. If I dig out the URL's from the edit pane and feed'em the browser, "he" shows me. What the heck is the difference ?? FuchsNoir: Firebird has an option to only load images that are stored on the same server as the html-page. Could it be you have set it. Or could it be on by default? It can be set at Extras->Options->Webfeatures Robert Pauli: Sorry, not under my control :-( 2004 September 12 (Sebastian:) Several questions AboutSubPages?:
Arno:
2004 September 9 The problem of page width exceeding the browser limits is somehow related to the combination of small text, using space indents, and titles, using exclamation marks. --Dieter 2004 August 26 Robert Pauli: IE5 shows no horizontal scroll bar on How Diagrams Work: ". . . easier. Don' CUT They are . . ." unkx80: Occurs on IE 6 too, when I resize the browser window sufficiently small enough. This IE "bug" is triggered by the preformatted text on the right side of a diagram goes across the horizontal width of the browser window, so I have brought the preformatted text down below the diagram. Robert Pauli: Thanks, unkx80, worked. 2004 August 26 Robert Pauli: IE5 doesn't show item bullets (*) beside a diagram (e.g. hints on DontPlayOnThePointOfSymmetry). 2004 August 22 Bildstein: The "Random Page" option generally seems to take you to an element of a long list - a BQM, a go problem, a glossary item, etc. I find this slightly frustrating, because generally what I want to see is a new idea. I was thinking that it was inevitable, but now I'm not so sure. I assume that "Random Page" is implemented as randomly choosing one page, giving each page an equal likelihood. But what if it was implemented by traversing the tree of pages, giving pages a lower probability of being chosen if their parent has many children? I know this is only a half baked idea, but perhaps someone else will pick it up and run with it. 2004 August 20 Robert Pauli: Paste a large text into the edit box, preview, and have some paragraphs now falling apart - as if an empty line has been inserted into the source, but if you check, there are none. Deleteting white space and adding it again removes the paragraph break. Background: IE5. Was editing a page, got warned, pasted the whole page to an editor (culprit?), worked in the diff, and pasted it back. 2004 July 5 axd: Help! I get a "Sorry, wrong password or username." error page when trying to change my user settings, but I am logged in? Arno: fixed. 2004 July 4 axd: Is there a reason why discussion pages cannot be revived? I was not able to revive a vandalised RecentChanges/Discussion. Hu: In this case, the vandalism was the creation of the page so there was no previous version to revive. This issue may not be related to discussion pages but may apply to all. Perhaps "revive" in these case might restore it to its "ready to be created" state or a facsimile thereof, but with some history, so that fresh pages that are "revived" could be "re-revived", forestalling a different kind of vandalism that might otherwise occur. 2004 June 23 rubilia: Sometimes it would be useful to have (read-only) access to the source text of earlier page versions. E. g., right now I'd like to re-include some recently deleted diagrams to a particular page in a changed manner. Maybe in the "view version" view there could be a "show source" link instead of the regular "edit" link in current pages? 2004 June 20 rubilia: Arno, I didn't want to bother you with this marginal stuff while you were dealing with the structural change of SL pages. Maybe now it's the time: The shortcut keys 1 to 9 in diff-in-page views don't really work the way they should, yet. Also, it would be nice if there was either a link or a hotkey to jump immediatly back to RecentChanges after reading a series of diffs. Right now, one has to ask the browser history, which is a little awkward. 2004 June 7 RafaelCaetano: Links to URLs starting with mms don't work. For instance: mms://stream.tamashima.tv/live. 2004 May 26 axd: I often want to watch pages as well as some of their subpages; (un)toggling the watch status requires a lot of clicking around. So I wondered if it would be possible to list not only the page, but also the subpages on a page's watch status page; each (sub)page would be a line with the current watch status, hyperlinked to toggle that status (similar as in the current "To undo, ..."). This would avoid one having to go to all subpages and (un)toggle there. Arno: will put this on my TODO. axd: In a page's Edit form, I'd like to suggest to move the different property input boxes (PageType, Difficulty, Keywords) away from the right and bottom side of the form (maybe position them just above the main text edit?). The reason is that it is easy to accidentally click in those controls (especially the Keywords one) while trying to grab a scrollbar, and thus resetting their content. Arno: I think the position is good. After all, how often do you change keywords etc. Putting them on top distracts from the main text area. Don't know if other people experience the same problem. Never happened to me. mAsterdam: Arno, I think it would be nice if a link on a mainpage to a subpage would not show the initial slash, so one could write /Slash? instead of Slash?, and still not see the initial slash. (See e.g. Elementary moves). Arno: hm. How do others feel about this? Actually I think that the '/' is a valuable information, after all /Atari is different from Atari.
Hu: A feature request: When viewing a diff, put the tag comment at the top. (The comments that appear in Recent Changes). Arno: will put this on my TODO. 2004 May 23 Blake: Arno, would it be possible to change the TOC directive so that it doesn't indent level one headings if there are no superordinate headings? See Basic Instinct. It seems that they are indented as if they were sub-headings, when, in actuality, they aren't--and the largest heading seems inappropriate, while the next-largest wouldn't completely solve the problem. Arno: done. Blake: It doesn't actually seem to have changed anything ;-) Arno: do a "hard" reload - the page is cached in your browser, e.g. try shift+reload, ctrl+reload, ... Blake: Ahh. Didn't know about that. Sorry. axd: Is it me, or is the RecentChanges page slower? Not only when loading, but also when hovering over links: my browser (IE 6.0) seems to need more time to switch the cursor when entering/leaving a link. axd: I see a TOC also includes diagrams; is it possible to include subpages? Arno: as I don't know if this is of interest in every case I have added two new macros: % %TOC+%% (toc + subpages), and % %Subpages%% (subpages only). See Fujitsu17YiWang/MovesTo90 and Fujitsu17YiWang/LowerRightStatus. unkx80: Does SL support paths for sub-pages? I intended to make a path on widest path for its sub-pages. Arno: yes. Just make the links path links using '>'. unkx80: Also, is there a way to find out what are the sub-pages of a page? For example, when I am at Go Servers, I would like to know that Go Servers / Discussion is one of the sub-pages, as well as any other sub-pages. Sooner or later, someone is bound to ask this question, so I might as well ask it now. =P Thanks. =)
Arno: subpages also show up in the left yellow area now.
Dave: Arno, I hate to say this but I was surprised while wandering around on Wikipedia today to see that
Arno: WP is not the only other wiki out there - and yes I have read these comments and on other wikis before implementing subpages :-) From a technical point I don't see how this can break things. The admin backend now has an option to automatically update all references when renaming a page. If people just copy&paste they need to be more careful. Sub-pages are deprecated on WP, because it creates a "hierarchy" and it is impossible to have one hierarchy system for everything in the world. On SL I don't see this hierarchy as a problem, because unless you start "Tactical/Atari" and get into arguments that it actually should be "Goterms/Atari" subpages do no harm. That's why I disabled keywords etc. for subpages. If a content on a subpage deserves another keyword than the mainpage, the subpage should become a mainpage of its own. I guess that's as far as I thought about guidelines on subpages. Maybe we should create a page AboutSubPages?. Bill: Please do. I would find material about subpages and how to use them helpful. :-) Hu: About Sub Pages? should be a sub-page of SL Conventions. 2004 May 22
DJ: Well... today I keep on having the same problem... I've added another two diagrams and both old and new ones are all in the wrong places in my Netscape. Dieter: A title search on "Cho" yields all the pages ...approach, one ... Doesn't bother too much, but I thought I'd alert. Arno: that's the way it is supposed to work. See the small note on the search page: "(actually searching without punctuation, spaces, etc.)". Your "approach, one" becomes "aproachone" which does contain "cho" in the middle. axd: the TOC concept seems to work fine. However, I'm not sure if it is possible to link to a content item from within a page (so as to be able to refer to another heading), or from another page. Arno: you can. The anchors are named "tocX" where X stands for a number. Problem is of course, that as soon as someone adds a heading all following headings are renumbered. I'd rather use defined anchors as in [1], ... axd: I tried to create a discussions page for the DGSWishlist, but got following error when I tried to save: ''Wiki Fatal Error: Error: empty pagename or illegal characters in pagename encountered while saving the page.'' (BTW, the previous phrase was supposed to be in italic - thought I knew how to italicise text??)
First I thought this was due to a space appearing between the '/' after the main page name and the subpage. Tried to correct the title (should this be allowed?), but to no avail. Arno: I just created the page without problem. axd: sorry, same problem when trying to create a test discussion page in my homepage (please don't do it for me, or I'll start looking for other places to create discussion pages ;-) - Same error message. Arno: please try again and tell me the exact error message - I have added more info to the error message.
axd: is there a way to get an index of discussion pages? Arno: Search for "/discussion" Blake: While attempting to create Fujitsu17YiWang/MovesTo30, I got this: Wiki Fatal Error Error: empty pagename or illegal characters in pagename encountered while saving the page. **Fujitsu17YiWang%2FMovesTo30?** /^A-Za-z0-9?+(\/A-Za-z0-9?+)?$/ Hmm, I tried again and it worked... Arno: I think I fixed the bug. It should have only occured after using "Preview". If the error still occurs, then please let me know the exact steps (e.g. did you use preview before saving? etc.) Blake: That seems to be fixed... but now Fujitsu 17 Yi Wang seems to be blank. 2004 May 21
DJ: Help! Arno: can't find anything wrong. Can you describe the "total mess" in more detail?
DJ: Well, on my Netscape 7.0 (on a PowerBook? with MacOS 9.2.2) the text I've written appears to be followed by some previous txt by Dave and HolIgor, then by my two diagrams (Korean magazine 1 & 2) and again by another diagram.
Arno: at my end (Mozilla 1.3) everything is ok. Before your "Hullo everybody" I see Holigor's and Dave's comments about Blake: There was a line in one of the diagrams that was making things look a bit odd. But.. is it just me, or is that whole page really, really ugly? :-) Seems like it could be a candidate for some edits. 2004 May 15 iff: I am not sure if this is the proper place to put it, but will there ever be a new version of the SL snapshot (the most recent one is from Feb 1)? For a while snapshots have been made available every 2 months or so, but that seems to have changed!? Blake: This is a very minor feature request, but I was wondering if "small stones" notation could be extended to W20/B20. There seem to be a decent number of "W11"/"B11" references, especially. 2004 May 11 unkx80: Badly formatted SL diagrams generate a large number of warnings when saving page. For example: $$ title $$ --------- (blank line) $$ | . . . . | $$ | . . . . | (blank line) $$ --------- Fixing such badly formatted diagrams (i.e. removing the extra blank lines) will also generate a warning message when saving page. Arno: fixed. unkx80: Thanks. 2004 May 5 Bill: The discussion about discussion pages has reminded me of something I would like, and that is some sort of cross-linking similar to footnotes. In a parallel discussion page, where people are talking about material on another page, it would be nice to have a reference to something on the original page which would operate like a footnote. When you click the link on the original page, it returns to the same place on the discussion page, and vice versa. OC, you can always use the browser Back button, but that would be nice. :-) Also a minor nit. When people link to a page with a long title, particularly if the text is displayed alongside a diagram, my browser often clips the text on the right rather than creating a scroll bar. I have sometimes edited such places with here?, but is there a technical fix? Thanks. Dieter: IIRC, such an issue was already raised and IIReven moreC Arno responded that it is impossible for him to solve browser behaviour. I think someone should filter out these browser/SL code issues and summarize on a separate page. I found the page: is Bill suffering from the SLPageEditingCutoffProblem ? Bill: Well, my browser (IE) creates a bottom scroll bar for this page and for this page, but not for others, where it cuts off text on the right side. I think it has to do with the fact that there is no diagram here. Can anyone explain? Thanks. (Later): Thanks to unkx80 for his helpful comment (since deleted), which was based on my lack of clarity (since corrected). :-) 2004 May 4 rubilia: Same here, with slightly different numbers. Jan de Wit: I get the following message when opening Recent Changes: Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 8388608 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 33 bytes) in /home/www/senseis.xmp.net/private_html/lib/recentchanges.php on line 66 Arno: our server lost track of time and thought it was 2003. And RecentChanges tried to show you 1 year full of edits. Time fixed. Timestamps in database fixed too. 2004 May 1 unkx80: There seems to be a minor error in the way time is displayed in full recent changes. Apparently the minutes field displays the month instead. Arno: fixed. 2004 April 21 axd: Not unexpected, but surprising was the use of the random page function of SL: if you want to go back to a previously visited random page, you just get another random page - LOL. It's weird when you try to go back to a page that did look interesting by using the browser history: does anyone see a way to solve this (small) problem? 2004 April 16 axd: About FullRecentChanges: would it be possible to add the number of lines changed, to better find wikivandals? I assume this is not done in order to limit the load on the server/database. (BTW - I still think we could use a SLWishlist? page) Arno: Won't do the addition to FRC. It uses a completely different approach to generating the list and it would cause some trouble to add that information. Instead use RecentChanges and add the minor edits to one of your profiles as well (if you set 'most recent only' too, then the list should be identical to FRC).
2004 March 20 axd: Is it possible to search in the page histories? This is interesting, for example when I want to know about every contribution someone made, not only the most recent one; and also, if for example a link gets deleted, creating an orphan, to know where the orphan was last referenced before it got deleted. 2004 March 15 Fwiffo: Is there a Wiki markup for making strikeout text? Arno: no. 2004 March 4 mAsterdam: I copied this from the sandbox:
2004 February 28 axd: Small question: is there a limit in the number of links that appear in the sidebar (not the bookmarks), and in the number of watched pages? (Somewhat less small question:) Do other limits exist? (e.g. size of pages, other limitations by decision or related to server space and what-do-I-know) 2004 February 17 TimHunt: I really like the diff-in-page view, but it would be even better if it took you to the first diff automatically. Is there a way of doing that? My approach would be to sitck an id="firstdiff" (or <a name="firstdiff">) a few lines before the start of the first diff in the page, and then make the links to the diff pages actually point to (old url)#firstdiff. 2004 February 8 axd: I often add a page to my watch list, to discover that it has been removed because I already added it before. As an alternative, replace "Toggle watch" by "Watch this page"/"Remove this page from watchlist". Arno: fixed link-bug in list of watched pages. About making the "toggle" link more descriptive: a valid request, however I did not include it on purpose, because checking wether a page is watched costs another DB query per page view. I wanted to avoid that. I have to think about this again. 2004 February 1 bojo: Is there a way to track searches that have zero hits, and rank them? It would be nice to grab the higher ranking negative hits and create aliases to real pages for them, so people searching have a better chance of finding what they were after (hopefully). 2004 January 23 When WME-ing a page, I often make a statement like "please recover undesirably lost material from the previous version", making "previous version" a version link. Therefore, it would be nice if the edit window shows what version I am editing. 2004 January 12
Arno: true. What to do about it? I think that it's very bad to have illegal HTML. If you can think of something, I'm happy to talk about it. 2004 January 6 wms: Arno, think I found a bug. I made a change, with a summary. Then I saw a typo, so I fixed the typo, put in "fix typo" in the summary, and checked "minor edit". Well, "minor edit" worked, since only one change is in the recent changes list, but the summary there is for the minor edit, not for the edit that should appear there! Not a huge deal, but does look like a bug - the "minor edit" summaries shouldn't appear in "recent changes", right?
2004 January 4 mgoetze: That should take care of almost every wish regarding RecentChanges. (WikiNews) -- not quite, I'd like to be able to ignore all ongoing games...
2003 December 27
(Sebastian:) Speaking of changes: When viewing a diff, the paragraphs before and after an inserted paragraph are displayed to give context information. This is a nice feature. Unfortunately, when one of these paragraphs contains a minor change then it is abbreviated to less than a line. Please display the whole paragraph in that case. (Example:
2003 December 12 Robert Pauli: Regarding your work on linear boards, however - those intersections separated by empty space - I hate it completely. My wish is a straight (horizontal or vertical) line with hoshis on it: * *-* *-*-* ... 2003 November 4 SnotNose: When adding comments to pages, are there tricks people have for remembering or quickly finding the names of other pages so as to include them as links? The best way I know how to do this is to open a new browser and look for the page (sometimes using the search function). One way to make this easier is if there were a quick search-like function on the edit page. It would need to return results right in the edit page and not mess up the edits already done. (Is this clear or too vague?)
2003 November 1 Bill: Request: Let the creator of a page edit the title. Why not? :-) Charles Renaming is restricted to Librarian-status people - presumably because sorting out the backlinks needs to be done and requires a responsible attitude. Bill, if you have a list of pages to rename I'll do it for you. Or you could apply for the step up to Librarian, with a request to Arno and Morten (which I suppose should be done off-site by email). Bill: What if the creator could rename the page if it had only one link? As a rule, that would be the one she used to create the page in the first place. That would make the job of creating pages a little easier. Power to the people! Arno: I think that renaming pages is a sensitive function: for one thing, the action is (currently) not archived anywhere and it does not show up anywhere, thus a vandal could create havoc quite easily. But even well meaning users could do quite some damage by renaming pages that are linked from the outside. One incident of that was BasicRulesOfGo getting renamed to RulesOfGoIntroductory, not taking into account that there are at least 20 webpages out there directly linking to that page. One could go as far as saying that renaming is not a wiki thing. I like the idea that pages here have a "permanent" name and URL. Apart from typos I don't think that there is much need for renaming. 2003 October 17 Tim Hunt: Thinking about Page Churn, how about adding a "page of the day" link to Recent Changes that is the page that was edited least recently at midnight at the start of that day. This could go just under the date heading, or at the end of the list of changes that day. This page has been pruned and master edited several times. Old versions:
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