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Quick Questions
Difficulty: Introductory Keywords: Question
Please put new questions at the top, after this request. Question from LukeNine45:
I have seen this played in games. Is it in the Joseki pages anywhere? I can't seem to find it...
Bill: If the ladder works,
Bill: Otherwise,
Bill: Or White can play LukeNine45: Thanks very much!
Bill: De nada. :-) Interesting question.
Question from adammarquis
The short story: I'm playing on Dashn as white. I'd judged the nobi at adammarquis: Thanks for the new ideas. I wasn't going to, but I'l admit this: In the game white played a, black played c, white made a 30k mistake down the road, black won. I get flustered easily. Question from ProtoDeuteric How do I make a page Alias? And are the hit counts of the Aliases combined? Arno: see HowAliasesWork. Hit counts are combined, but the initial count for the alias page (i.e. if the page already existed and got some hits) is not added to the main page when the page is made an alias. Question from FireBolt How can I leave a message to an librarian? And can he/she change a rooms name? unkx80: If you want to change the name of a page, please make a request in page name change requests. If you have a general message (to anyone, including librarians), then the message board is an appopriate place. By the way, I renamed one of the pages you created to become a subpage of hikaru fire. Question from Jedyte moved to Jedyte on 13x13 albacore: I was looking at the smallest group with two eyes page which raised a question in my mind, but I didn't want to edit that page. When your opponent has a group that they can easily connect to make 2 eyes, should you play in the group to force them to do it? (This is discussed in connection with the final side group on the page mentioned.) It seems to me it would make sense to do this, as each stone your opponent plays in their own territory to connect the group reduces their score by 1. Am I missing something? Bill: Do you mean this group?
Suppose that White plays at a, forcing Black to respond.
Black still has 4 points: 3 points of territory plus 1 dead White stone. The score remains the same.
albacore: Many thanks for taking the trouble to answer. I can see only 2 points of territory, plus the 1 dead stone. Are you counting black at 2 as territory? The software I use only counts the empty points and dead enemy stones, and my understanding was this was the Japanese way of scoring. Hence the point of my question.
Paul Clarke: At the end of the game Black would remove albacore: I had not understood that aspect of the counting, and I guess I misunderstood how my software counts territory and prisoners, too. Many thanks for the clarifications in your answers.
juhtolv: Do you know any places where you can download Go lessons in SGF-format? Please, add then here: SGF Archives Question about the pro stat boxes. When you look at professional player's statistics, the graph has the number of games played, scoring, and average. Any insight as to what these mean or how to interpret the trends. Thanks!
Niklaus: I assume you are talking about the statistics on By the way, I think these statistics only account for the games that are in gobase's collection. Question about teaching method Go variants juhtolv: If you know the name of that nameless Go variant, please add it right in that page: Go Variants That Make You Better Player in Normal Go Question: Q naruto3: Heya I have a question. I have been thinking for awhile now and think I may be correct sorta maybe. Well I play on KGS as some know. A while ago I was doing an experiment sorta accidental, for a while I was playing only the center in a game of go. I played people of many different ranks and strengths. Whenever I played the center of the board and seemed to be losing by less. Is there a reason? Also can anyone offer some tips for playing the center it would be appreciated Bob McGuigan: Check out Why Don't We Open at Tengen Bill: Congratulations on your results. It's a good experiment. :-) Overemphasizing the center is not good, but most amateurs make the opposite mistake of neglecting the center. If you are getting better results by playing in the center, then maybe you were doing that. The old rule of thumb from Korschelt, probably reflecting his understanding of what Murase Shuho said, is not such a bad one: One eye and access to the center. Balance is important. I am having lots of trouble getting SGF files to open within both my browsers, Mozilla and IE6. I looked at the SGF help files but couldnt' figure out how to handle MIME types, etc. I don't have an SGF player, but any suggestions would be appreciated. Bob McGuigan: I am in no way an expert, but I think SGF files are simply text files that happen to be written in a special format. SGF readers are programs that take this text file and turn it into a diagram. There are many SGF readers available, some of them are free downloads and also function as clients for some go servers. See SGF File and Go Editing Programs. Q: Jion?: Hello, don't know where I should ask this or find this; I tried searching for it but found nothing. Please edit/move this if it makes things easier. Just wondering if it is always possible to live with an invasion at A in this situation? I realize that invading immediately would probably be helping black, but can anyone give me some ideas for a joseki sequence? TIA
Dieter: Let's call it three star points, contact invasion.
Q: puripuri: A long time ago (well, months) I read a typed in chapter of a Go book in Sensei's Library. It wasn't a technical book, but pictured the life and survival of a family in old Japan, where the father played Go in the landlord's mansion and earned money for bread from winning. Later the eldest daughter wants to pick up the game too. I checked through most of the pages under Books & Publications header, but didn't find this chapter any longer... Is it still around somewhere? Was it taken down for copyright reasons or something similar? Not that it matters, I'm more interested in the title of the book. Anyone remember that? :)
Gromgull?: You are thinking of Bob McGuigan: Are you thinking of A Cautionary Tale? Zarlan: No I think it is the one where the father had played Go, so good that he only had to play a few times to allow their family to have a lot of money and status, but after his death the son is forced to play to get money. He doesn't know much to begin with but his mother and sister fix a board of cloth and pebbles that they play with although women aren't allowed to play Go and... anyway where is that story? puripuri: Hmm looks like I remembered a little wrong... Zarlan's description sounds quite correct now that I think about it in more detail... Skipping through A Cautionary Tale, it seems like another story well worth reading. Thanks for that tip too. Q: Fwiffo: Online, when playing with Japanese rules, most players rarely fill in dame (with the exception of points that force the opponent to fill in part of their own territory) at the end because it's not worth any points. My understanding is that dame points are worth points when using area scoring (such as in Chinese rules), and should be filled. I've noticed people sometimes neglect to do this when playing my robot (which is set for Chinese scoring for technical reasons) and lose points as they pass while the robot fills. In a system with pass stones (such as AGA rules) it is still necessary to fill dame, correct? Doubly so? As a side note - I can see the appeal of territory scoring in casual online games both for penalizing useless plays inside established territory and obviating the need to fill dame. A: Neil: This is a loaded question. By using the japanese term dame, you're pre-judging the filling of the points between territory as "worthless." (This isn't really an answer, but rather more of an observation hoping to spark a discussion)
Q: bojo: Is master editing out short summary of change possible? There is/was a blatantly racist remark typed up in regards to AtomicBombGame, but I am unsure if it's possible to revert that out. A: Arno: no it is not possible. Currently only I can do that. If the problem reccurs often enough, librarians will get the ability too. I have deleted the abusive summary. Q: Hikaru79: I am wondering whether it is allowed to take SL's template files (browse.html, etc), modify them, and use them for your own Wiki--I'm not sure if "Open-Source" extends that far. There were no attempts made to somehow deny access to these files (I easily found them), so I assume that it's OK to take them and play with them a little; But I am asking just to be sure :) Is it OK to take SL's template, modify it to suit one's purpose, and use it on a non-commercial Wiki? (I'm planning on making a Chess or Shogi Wiki with a similar layout to SL) Thank you!
Eratos You can certainly download the Morten: Hikaru79, I'd suggest that you drop Arno and myself an email with what you would like to do and we will get back to you. Q: bojo: In handicap games I play against a certain fellow, he always answers my keima kakari like so:
I'm not exactly sure how to follow this up. Usually I just let it go, approach from the other side later, and eventually close him in. However, I'm curious if there is a more efficient way to deal with it. A: unkx80: Please see 4-4 point low approach, low knight's move block and BQM 146.
Q: Jion?: I have NEVER played a 13x13 game before. Do any high kyu players or higher think it helps your game? I have played many 9x9 games using igowin, and I think it has helped my fighting and endgame. I think a 13x13 would be far more territorial than 19x19 . . comments or thoughts? A: unkx80: As the board size increases, the game will get less and less territorial. Q: Jion?: Hi, this is my first time posting here, so apologies if I inadvertently mess something up. I was wondering if a slotted board is a board that is composed of two pieces, and fits together with slots, or is it a folding board that has slots on the side so it is more secure? Any recommendations on whether to get a slotted or folding board? Also, any major difference in Agathis or Katsura wood? I think I might get a folding board, but wanted to know what other people think first. TIA. A: HansWalthaus: A slotted board is a board that has pieces that are slotted together. A folding board that has slots on the side is just a folding board with some nice bodywork. I think slotted boards are better if you're playing on a slightly oneven surface. And slotting the board is cooler than folding one open :) No comment on the wood types. Hope it helps. A2: mdh Note in some places, Katsura is becoming rare and hard to find. My local shop has a sign up saying it is now a protected species and they will not be selling any more Katsura boards. A3: JohnAspinall The problem with folding boards is they eventually warp over time. I have a cheap folding board where one of the halves has warped enough to put a ridge right down the middle line of the board. I'm considering cutting the felt backing, straightening the warp out and routing alignment slots to turn it into a slotted board. I'll let you know how it goes. Alex Weldon: If you're in a defensive position, go for the White stones. The Black position allows potential for a White tesuji (c.f. strike at the waist of the keima) to cut, if there are White stones nearby to help. Q: Neil: What shape is better connected of these two, white or black?
A:Bob McGuigan: In isolation it is hard to say. Without supporting stones of the opposite color nearby both are strong shapes. However, a Black play at the point marked with a square creates a cutting point marked with a circle as in the following diagram:
On the other hand if White tries to disconnect the black stones on the left as in:
White can try to save Neil: Thank you. Q: ColJac: I see the word "Igo" used to describe go in a Japanese context. One would assume that this was the Japanese word for go, but more often one reads that "Go" is a Japanese word. And what am I to make of "GoGoIgo!"? Can someone explain the difference?
Q: What's the Korean equivalent of kenkyuusei and haya go? Q: How long do preliminary matches last in the Japanese Go scene? I mean title matches are given 8 hours or 7 or depending on the title. How about the qualifying games for these matches? And how about the Ooteai, how long were the games back then?
Q: Results of Go games are sometimes marked "B+R". Does that mean "Black won by resignation" or "Black resigned"? thanks in advance!
Q: alter Pedro: do you play with or against your opponent?
Q: Nico: I haven't be able to find a page explaining why the goban coordinates jump from H to J, missing I. Shame on me! I suspect some kind of historical reason. And I am pretty sure that this is explained somewhere on a wiki page...
Q: alter Pedro: how many 3-4 points are there on a go-ban? (8, 4, 1?)
If a is the (upper left) 3-4 point, I guess that makes b the 4-3 point. Does the order in which they are played change their names? on a 19x19 board should the point a be called the 16-3 point?
Q: alter Pedro: I've never played face to face go ... and I wonder ... Do players keep records of their moves (like in chess)? all the pictures of boards I've seen don't have the coordinates on them which (in my humble opinion) makes it hard to know where the last stone was played (was that k15 or j15???)
Q: A stronger player in a 9x9 teaching game recently told me that I shouldn't "hit below the shoulder" but should "hit above the shoulder". I am familiar with the concept of a shoulder hit but why is above better than below? Q: Can somebody give me a good definition of the term "life basis"? One person told me that it is room to make an eye, another told me it is potential to make two eyes. It seems to be an important term to consider in settling groups. Perhaps someone could start a discussion page about it?
Q: Is there a word (other than invasion) to describe dropping a stone lightly inside an over-expansive moyo when it has a chance of either achieving sabaki or escaping? I've heard it described in English as a "Paratrooper invasion".
Q: Is there a word for a dragon that pokes its head through one of your walls, and runs amok reducing your territory?
Q: In Chinese there is a term that translates as 'virtuous warrior's advance' Virtuous (de) means powerful in this context. Though this term describes the dynamic action, rather than the static formation. Jadelink. Morten: Can people who copy & paste existing questions from other pages to this page please take care that the questions are 'quick questions' and are not obsolete or old, or taken out of their context? Hikaru79: OK ;) Q: Hikaru79: In Hikaru no Go, Touya Akira checks up on the status of the Pro Exam through the net, where the names of all the insei and their current standings in the exam were shown. I was just wondering if a site like this actually existed on the Nihon-Kiin's page, or if it was just the author taking some artistic liscence when it came to that. And even if there isn't, does anyone know when the pro exam starts? Thanks! =) (My own question taken from the "Insei" page.
Q: Hikaru79: Is it possible to have RandomPage? (the feature listed on the front page of SL) as one of your "favorites" on your user bar. (The one that can be edited at UserPreferences). I have already tried random=1 but that doesn't work. Any suggestions? ^^
A: Hikaru79: Never mind, I've solved my own problem. It can't be done the normal way, but if you make it an external link ( A2: TJ: RandomPage|phpwiki:?random=1 Q: Help! I've wiped out my browser cookies in a fit of housecleaning, and I've forgotten my SL password. Can it be mailed to me? I've wondered... I'm reminded how in poker, there are big tournaments, but also big-money side games as well. Do pro players play _only_ in tournaments, or are there leagues for them to play in? Or do pros just challenge each other? How would a system for this take place? Thanks! Answer: In Japan, at least, pros are paid to play "official" games. The money comes from sponsors of tournaments. Pros don't risk their own money. Challenge matches would be possible if sponsors could be found. In a sense Go Seigen's ten-game matches were of this sort. Answer: I heard the some Korean players may play Go for money (Bang Neki). But unlike poker, a game of skill (Go) versus one that is half skill and half luck (Poker). The highest ranking player in Go may be more likely to win everygame. Though the Go handicap system may help to equalize a game. The only other problem is getting enough people together that will be willing to gamble that have Go playing skills. Maybe if Go becomes available at Los Vegas or Tahoe/Reno... then gambling for money will catch on for the game of Go. Q:Dan Argent: I need a place to download the java stuff to run KGS on my second computer (it was already on my first). The CGoban site gives a link to the sun systems site, but for the life of me, I can't find the spot to just download the apropriot JRE. can anyone help with a link to a free download and/or a walk through of how to get it installed?
A: Yes, the page (
A2: Q2:Dan Argent: Ok thanks, I got the download. that was easier than I thought. But now CGoban 2 still says that it canot find the java runtime environment. what now? Dan Argent:I downloaded the wrong stuff. I solved it now thanks for those who helped, I am now using KGS on both of my computers. amadis: I was looking for the KGSEnglishChatRoom? page but had a hard time finding it. I think the reason is that somebody added a slash character "/" to the title, which caused unforeseen results. Are any non-alpha characters allowed in page titles? SikeElegy: Roughly how many official pros are there (in particular countries, or a combined total)? Charles Japan 400+, China 200-250, South Korea 200 and increasing now; Taiwan 20, North America 10-15; a few in Europe and probably one or two in Singapore and Hong Kong. SikeElegy: What's up with the Hao Mao Cup (Chinese City League Tournament)? It was my favorite tournament to follow, but when igo-kisen dropped it, I found myself completely unable to find any info about it, current or otherwise. SikeElegy: No one has anywhere they can point me? The last I've found/heard is the go4go.net news for April '04, in which they said the "Chinese City League A will start in the middle of the month" but I haven't found anything with results or any kind of further info (not even the teams).
HolIgor: Frarugby: This question has probably been asked a thousand times, but i'm new to this wonderful site, give me a break. :) I've been playing the great game of Go for a while now, but for the most part my games have been limited to the internet. I intend to join a club in the future, but currently i personally don't know anyone else who plays seriously. Is there, somewhere on the internet, a program or person or site that can analyze/look at my game and give me an idea of what my rank is? i'm very curious and i have no idea how to find out approximately where i'm at. Often when i play against others, they tell me they are 15 kyu, or 18 kyu or 5 kyu or so on.. are they estimating? how does one find out? thanks a lot HolIgor: I guess you've been playing on some internet server without a rating system. Try to create an account at a server with the rating system such as IGS, KGS, NNGS. After playing a number of games you'll get your rating. They are quite close to the real life ratings. IGS gives approximately European rating, KGS is anchored to the American rating system. Charles Without any data to go on, I can say that 15 kyu is the top end of the 'social player' range: without a bit of serious study, or contact with more experienced players, most people find it hard to progress further than that. IanDavis You can also try the Osmotic method - I have begun to notice several players now who don't actually play; they just watch high dan games for months, then they start playing at about 15k. Could just be urban myth though. Frarugby Thanks very much for all the help guys. Here's a bit of a follow-up question: Which Go server do you guys recommend for a relatively new player like me? Why do people choose some servers over others? any opinions? jfc Here is the breakdown:
Frarugby Thanks for the help fellas, i made an account at KGS and it seems like they have a really nice system. I'm Frarugby if anyone wants a game. Until then, cheers Q: dr: I have a quick question about Counting Points in Seki I was hoping somebody could answer... Q: Kiruwa: If anyone has answered this already, I apologize. But I'm curious what the japanese word to indicate that you are passing is. Can someone give a "correct" pronunciation of "miai" in terms a westerner would understand? A: If you don't want to learn the gory details of Japanese pronunciation, you can approximate this word by saying "me-eye" as you would in English. Try not to have a glottal stop in the middle, which means the catch in your voice as you say "Uh-oh!". Here is a pathetic little mnemonic: "You play there, me eye. You play here, me eye. Miai!" Q: So, <mee ah' ee> is bigtime wrong? Where does the accent go in <mee eye>? A: You won't go far wrong by pronouncing Japanese like Spanish. Miai has three syllables: mi, a, and i. They are shorter than English mee, ah, and ee. Each Japanese syllable lasts about 1/4 second. There is no accent in Japanese like the English accent. Often the pitch rises on the second syllable, a, which can sound like an English accent. This is a copy of the living page "Quick Questions" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |