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Catenaccio joseki - follow-up plays
Difficulty: Advanced
Keywords: Joseki
Assume these plays already made.
Charles Yes, this is an interesting topic. Ishida gives also Black at a,
There is also the possibility of Black playing the peep
That will mean that White has a chance to play at a here, so there must be a reason connected with the upper side for Black to play this way.
Perhaps there are occasions when this line is good, for example if invading at san-san would give White too much influence, but generally sub-dan players like this variation because it can lead to complicated fighting. Even so, it doesn't obtain much territory in itself, and that fighting often favours White. Things might go something like this:
The honte is for Black to play at Dieter (moved from discarded joseki): Continuing on this particular "joseki", Guo Juan also recommends against it, because it has the following weakness:
Please correct me, because I'm diagramming from memory and I haven't really checked its validity lately.
Tamsin
I have tried this, but Black usually plays
If White saves
Black's stones are not easy to attack because White's group is also weak. Have I missed something?
Charles It ought to be better to play Moved here from 4-4 point low approach, two-space high pincer with side stone.
SnotNose: Not sure if pros play this nowadays (or ever) but it is often played by amateurs (at least up to 1 dan).
SnotNose: Black has this annoying little follow-up that has led to some ugly play in the games I've seen.
Other variations are possible ( Alex Weldon: After this, White at b looks interesting to me, taking advantage of Black's shortage of liberties. Charles Bad shape, aji keshi for Black. SnotNose: That's exactly what I thought too when I first saw this sequence (ugly shape, aji keshi, etc.). However, Guo Juan 5P has recommended it to some attendees of the recent US Go Congress. So, for that reason alone it is hard to dismiss too easily.[2] Moreover, if black is a strong fighter, this can be an advantageous way to play. I think the relevant question is: is the fight a fair one? If it is at least fair or, due to board position or relative strength of players, tilts in Black's direction, then this may be an okay way to play, no? Other thoughts: bad shape isn't always bad. The aji keshi is due to the fact that Black could have cut White off from progressing across the top. However, if the position is such that Black wouldn't benefit from limitting White at the top, then is it really aji keshi? That completes my thoughts on this sequence. I won't defend it any further. Charles I wouldn't dismiss it. It turns out that Cho Hun-hyeon tried this in 1996, against Seo Mu-sang (colours reversed).
The
White gave up
Black then pulled out the cutting stones, but in very poor shape.
In fact Cho won this game, despite some serious dangosity. This is a copy of the living page "Catenaccio joseki - follow-up plays" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |