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Ashley F's homepage copyright discussion
   

2003-03-04:

DJ: Hey, AshleyF, what you've done is sure cute!
Let me use a newagey jargoon: Groovy! This place is really graawin'...
BTW: Have you got Italian origins? :-)

AshleyF Yep, Feniello's Italian. :-)

Arno: what do other's think? would you like small graphics to show the move numbers? I could add a little hack. Maybe something like [img:b7] or some such.

Dave Arno, I think it should be a new markup - something like {B7}, max. Otherwise I would expect to stick with the old style.

dnerra: Arno, I think that would be great! This would also save us the (future) debate about whether "Black 5" or "B5" is better style :-) Seriously, I think it would make the text read nicer.

David: I think it looks nice, but I don't know if the added complexity of a new text formatting rule is worth it, especially if it isn't used consistently. It might be that the ways people cite moves (like "Black 3" or "B3") are uniform enough that GoWiki can search for them and replace them with images when a page is edited, or even on the fly. Whether to show images or text could be

made a user preference.

AshleyF I have actually experimented with this also using the SLSnapshot. It worked out fairly well and could be tuned further. The more difficult ones are things like 'the marked stone' or even worse, 'B3 and the marked point are miai'. Maybe a one-time conversion plus some macros like {B3} which humans could enter?

On his home page, AshleyF hints that his experiment isn't complete. I think we should find out what other interesting things he's thinking about before making any changes.

AshleyF I'm basically just thinking of inline icons for relating the commentary to points and stones on the board. Ideally, it should be as complete as the diagramming feature itself; containing Black and White stones with numbers 1-10 and with square and circle marks. Also was thinking of having icons for marked and lettered empty points. That's about it.

Some other ideas I've had (but I think are over the top for SL) are further separating presentation from data in SGF. For example, 'macros' in comments to refer to points and stones on the board rather than having markup tags. Then the SGF viewer could decide how best to represent the correlation. I was further thinking of defining a bunch of common comment glyphs (gleaned from KJD and Teaching Ladder games). Things like 'a and b are miai' could become '{miai:Q12,R13}' and the SGF viewer could decide to present however it sees fit. Some may simply display as text (in the language of your choice). Others may use inline icons and display matching markup on the board. Others in the future may even do some bizarre stuff like a 'cartoon balloon' at the point on the board being discussed or a finger pointing at the board while the commentary is read aloud (yeah, I'm dreaming). Also, it could be translated to various languages or represented as a standard set of international 'glyphs' like [ext] Chess Informant does. Even within English you could turn on/off Japanese terms, for example, and choose whether to see things like 'semeai' or instead, 'capture race' in the commentary (I'm sure Charles would always choose the latter :-).

Anyway, inline icons would be cool.

Fhayashi: The game is from the book on Wings Go Club's website, right? I was thinking of reformatting that things, because it currently is a horrible 500-something pages long....

Hu: AshleyF's page may be "cute" but unless I am mistaken, the text seems taken wholesale without attribution and possibly without permission as a Google Search reveals: [ext] http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Kawakami+of+baseball%22&meta=site%3Dsearch

Kgr?: If you look at the things that google finds, you will see that the translator (the sources are uncopywritten chinese books) grants the right to reproduce the material for personal use, and so does the person who typeset the book into the form google finds. The original publication was on rgg in 1993. It does need attribution to not confuse people, but maybe it is best to let AshleyF finish experimenting with the diagram comments before jumping on him about attribution.
Hu: Thanks, Kgr, for clarifying. Sorry for jumping the gun.
Charles Note that PatrickB is also involved as editor, though. Could we have the use cleared with him?
AshleyF I've added PatrickB's preface. Very sorry. I didn't mean to leave any impression that the commentary was mine. I was planning to mail Arno and gang before moving off of my page because while both authors give permission to reproduce, I'm not sure about the 'for personal, non-commercial use' statement.
PatrickB It's fine with me. As long as the preface is there that lets people know the state of the copyright on the work and gives credit to Mr. Yu for his work, I'm happy to see it getting used.
Charles Next point - author's "moral rights". Those include not having a distorted form circulated. Here on SL, not only can we not guarantee that the text won't be edited once posted - we can pretty much guarantee that it will be edited.
dnerra On the finer points, I doubt very much that this preface is compatible with the Open Content License (not that I personally care so much).
AshleyF Just to be on the safe side, I've removed the thing. I'll repost when/if it's determined to be an okay thing to do on SL.
Charles I'd certainly be happy to see this material on SL - I once printed out the whole book, but the somewhat clunky English makes it harder to read. So if permissions could be sorted out to have an edited version here, I'd be delighted.
AshleyF Does anyone know how to contact Jim Z. Yu? I have tried all email addresses I could find and his handle on IGS (zhuge) no longer exists.


This is a copy of the living page "Ashley F's homepage copyright discussion" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2004 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.