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Teaching Game 67
Path: CommentedGames   · Prev: TeachingGame66   · Next: TeachingGame361
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This is a Teaching Game so please add generous comments. Anyone can a question or kibitz. It makes for a good learning experience (and nice reading material for others). Hopefully we see some dan level player with their kibitzes here as well


[Diagram]
Latest move marked

[Diagram]
Captured stones and komi


[Diagram]
Moves 111-120


unkx80: Comments: I don't understand what W120 is doing. Also, IMHO, B117 and B119 are too passive. (I have deliberately make my comments vague in order not to spoil the game.)

DJ: Thanks for commenting our game, unkx80! B119 is sure passive, but, as I said, these days I have not the time to analyse fighting variations, like pushing down at a.
As regards B117 it looks to me less passive, as it was my first eye for this group. I was afraid that if I kept on running without not even one eye, say with b, White would have pushed along at c. In this case, if I protected my territory on top, I wasn't so sure I could connect easily without incurring in some other loss somewhere else.
BTW, one of my oldest go buddies has just recently moved to Singapore, and has visited the go club already. Did you meet him? He's called Alberto Rezza.
unkx80: Thanks. Sometime when I am free I will go down and see if he is around. =)

JoeSeki W120: Yet another attack to try and whittle down your territory or gain some of my own. I wouldn't mind putting this game on hold for a while though.

DJ: As you like, Joe. But, as I said before, we do not have to play *fast*... :-)
Just play when and if you feel like, I wouldn't mind at all!

DJ B119: I very much wanted to make another eye in Sente but it seems not possible (also I haven't very much time to spend these days), so I'll live in Gote (still better than dying in sente...)

JoeSeki W118: looks like you got two eyes, so I'll take the profit and steal the second and force you to take the second in gote or run some more. Let's see where this goes.

DJ B117: It looks to me I have one eye: I'm half alive, then... ;-)

JoeSeki W116: I don't know what to play now. I can't read this out all the way, and yet I don't know how to play when I'm in this position. Is it really do-or-die now? Or is there some way of thinking I should adopt here to improve my game?

DJ B115: If possible, I would like to avoid damages to my territory... Let's try to give some eye-shape to my poor dragon!

JoeSeki W114 Hope to stop or get an advantage as you break through.

DJ B113: Having started to push, let's keep on pushing!

JoeSeki W112 I think you must live, you can't escape if I read correctly. My hope is you live in Gote or don't live at all. but it is too complex for me to read out entirely. I think it is wise for white to say it will live, but I can torture it. If I can gain position from the attack that should be the goal for white.

DJ B111: I had studied this position a lot and gone through dozens of variations... Darn me if I remember anything! ;-)
Therefore I play a new approach... Will I escape?


DJ: Hey, Joe! Are you still with me?

JoeSeki Sorry about the long absence. Work got crazy for me, then my Father had to go in for heart surgery and then Easter hit. All is well though.

JoeSeki I think we should adjourn this game. Thanks for the game up to this point. It was educational, and helpful!

DJ: Sorry, it was my turn to be busy... Do not worry, I'm thinking about my move (I must confess I forgot what I was planning to do...). I think we do not need to adjourn, let's just make our moves when we can!
BTW, I'm very glad to hear that your dad is allright now. I'm very sensitive on the subject, 'cause I've lost mine six months ago after a year of illness. Best wishes from my heart!

JoeSeki Play on then. My dad is already back to work and he's walking more than 2 miles a day, Doctors say he can run a 10k in 3 months he's recovering so fast. He used to be a tri-athelete. The only reason the caught the problem is because he did the responsible thing of getting a check up before he training for the Marine Marathon. He checked out okay but the EKG had an odd signiture so they had more tests done. Double Bypass surgury and found a congenital hole in his heart the size of a penny. Had he not been a runner he could have died of a stroke anytime in his life from an errant blood clot. So he got a twofer and he'll be better then before. On another note, I'm pretty sure I'll be going to the Go Congress this year. Might you as well?

DJ Weeeell.. You know, living in Italy doesn't help... ;-)))


[Diagram]
Moves 101-110

JoeSeki W110 with the long break I need to think about this again. Dragons are very hard to kill, but maybe I can frame out some territory in the middle and set up some more attacks or squeeze into your zones of control and destroy your territory. So with that in mind, I make thickeness in the middle and deny you a sente eye. (or did I fail to do that? only time will tell)

DJ B109: Sorry for the delay, I've busy at work and I've got a bad cold...
Here we go! I must escape, or make an eye in Sente in order to patch the other one on the LS... Mamma mia!!!

JoeSeki W108: I think your argument should be refined a bit more. If I can't catch your dragon, AND if by running away you don't destroy the rest of your territory, then I think you'll win. You owe me a move on the left side or I destroy all your eye space. Does this move of mine catch the dragon? or force you to run so that I can destroy the territory you have built up. I think it's all about fighting now. Good luck, this should get exciting!

That's exactly what I've thought... So far we've both been very careful in the choice of our moves, so why don't we start a real mess??!? ;-)))
In this way we accomplish two goals: we can better show our weak points (mine for instance are all in the fighting), and we can keep all SL's lurkers entertained...
Good luck to you too, Joe!
--DJ

DJ B107: During this game you have surprised me two times, tenuki-ing when I expected you to answer my moves. Now it's my turn to maybe surprise you: I am making a risky bet, risky and fun!
If I assume that I can bring to safety the larger part of my group, your capture (or my connection) above B105 could be worth some 15 points gote. And this could be less, if I'll manage to set up a ko, or maybe a little more if you manage to link up to your group in the corner below (?).
Still, I think B107 is worth much more, as it takes territory and stabilises a weak-ish black group.
Now the question (and the fun of playing this game) is: can you catch my dragon??!?
;-)

JoeSeki W106 I was wondering the same thing. Whether I should leave them for later as ko threats or use them now to destroy eye space. I will play this to improve my shape while keeping sente. This gives you 6 on the side for one eye and I don't think I should play here any longer as there are no more eyes to destroy here. I can destroy the second eye by playing in one space or hane at the edge to make that a false eye. so the 2nd eye comes in the middle someplace. I think rather the proper thing to do is not to try and kill you but exploit the weakness of this possiblity by attacking something else and try to creat a double attack. It would be ideal if I could get an attack that forced you to run me into the top right. So I'll give this a lot of thought and see what I come up with. I wish some stronger players would comment. I can't help but feel this is a where you and I need to learn how to think about the game properly to improve. Are we reinforcing bad practices?

DJ B105: I've been thinking that this sequence was your privilege. I wonder whether it would have been better to leave it unplayed (you know, ko threats an all the rest...).

JoeSeki B104 Let's push as much as I can

DJ B103: Uh...

JoeSeki White 102: I tried to read out the cut sequence. I thought you got G7 before I could cover the cut. Then it's an interesting running battle that I couldn't quite read out. Alas I think it would have been bad for you if you had tried the running battle (unless of course you catch the white stones, then it would be great, but that's gambling, not reading)

AvatarDJFlux B101: Oh, tough luck! I have to submit... :-(
There is no way for me to put on some resistance: e.g. by connecting at W102, being cut in two by W 101 and cut myself at b: I couldn't find any way to catch the three marked white stones, as my cut group on the RS has only 5 liberties...
Therefore I have to answer all your sente moves here, and wait to be attacked on the bottom. Oh well!



[Diagram]
Moves 91-100

JoeSeki W100 Black 99 looks very good to me. Assuming black is in no trouble on the left. I'm gonna push here a bit and see what happens. If Black is thin on the left, then I think Black 99 took the whole board into consideration. He protects the upper right from a reduction, while protecting the right hand cuts a bit (it's harder for me to use the aji here) It also takes territory in the middle while helping the lower stones by making it harder for me to dive in deeper (if you start a running fight, I have no place to run now)

DJ B99: I agree with you, I have allucinated... :-(
This is the second really bad move after my AjiKeshi moves in the LR corner. And you're right too, I do not have time, I cannot play two moves in a row...
Let's change line of play.

JoeSeki W98: I didn't like blacks choice of moves for 97. White can say atari and threaten to capture the B97 or cut off a large chunk by cutting at E10, so B97 didn't really do anything for you, it really just helped white put more stones in the middle. I still want to drive into your group to eliminate your eye spaces. B97 tries to accomplish too many things at once. I expected H11, which I think solves all your problems. Which if I think about it, you can just keep in your pocket an this group isn't in too much trouble anyway. Assuming your group is okay, I would think the proper thing to do would be to grab a bit more terriotory and safe up you other groups. Do you have the time?

DJ B97: And I thought that my LS influence was one of my assets! I'll think twice...
I do not think the LS wall is cuttable, but it is true that many Kikashi can be played against it. Anyway, I've always believed that in case of running battles occurring, it was there to help my groups...
I do not know whether this move settles my dragon, but sure I will have to choose between a peaceful follow-up to it, or a chaotic fighting... Definitely it is time to count again.
Brace yourself!!! ;-)))

JoeSeki W96: I liked blacks last move a lot, it creates eye shape in the middle which will mitigate the need for a running group. For that reason I thought I should ignore it and play in the middle instead, but then I have a runnin group, and your's is stronger then mine. So I'll settle it and let you settle yours. As for the other two groups I have my eyes on they are your right hand side stones which have a lot of cuts that have a lot of aji for me to exploit. I also have a nice move on the bottom to make your bottom black stones have only one eye and thus force them to run. It is my hope I gain more territory in this fights to come. I half expect to nab the single black stone at the bottom in the ensuing fights. But realisticly that's wishing and not reading.

DJ B95: Uhm, you may be right, even if I don't consider this group that weak. I wonder which are the other two... unless you consider a group the solitary stone in m4.
Meanwhile, a little Kikashi.

JoeSeki W94: AjiKeshi means I lost potential here, I think this is doing exactly what I want it to do. I think W92 is connected back to my white stones, and that you only have one eye for this group now. So I have the running battle I wanted. I don't think I have any weak groups now, but Black has 3 groups I can target.

DJ B93: I think I am connected. Also a should connect, but maybe it gives you more forcing moves. It's difficult to decide...
And, if I am connected, wouldn't you think W92 could be considered AjiKeshi?

JoeSeki W92: Is it connected really? This looks like an interesting spot to see what happens.

DJ B91: Connection. It looks like a Dame point, doesn'it?
But maybe I have accomplished something: less weaknesses (hopefully), potential points on the TS...



[Diagram]
Moves 81-90

JoeSeki W90: Now black seems to have the weak group

DJ B89: Yup, same here.

JoeSeki W88: Simply connecting seems best.

AvatarDJFlux B87: Giving Atari to W86 (above a) was tempting, but then the ensuing fight? would have little chances to succeed, with risks for black LS group.
I promise as soon as I have a little spare time to create the proper discussion page...
Now let's try to save what can be saved.

JoeSeki W86: A few interesting variations I have to be careful about, but I think black is in trouble here.

AvatarDJFlux B85: Mamma mia! More than a month from the last move... I must apologise!
Well then, here we are again. This move doesn't push very much, but all the "pushy" moves I've tried led to nowhere, or worse, to not small losses, very often just due to White cutting right where I have connected. If I'll find the time I'll make the pages...
Now, when I started all this a few moves ago, my primary intention was to bring some outside help to my group on the LS, just in case. I think this move goes somehow in that direction, while still keeping a little pressure on the White Dragon... ;-)

JoeSeki This game seems to have lost interest by viewers and players. Should we call it here? My life is getting busy and I could use the time.

ChessWhiz: Actually, I think viewers are still interested -- it's the players that are moving more and more slowly! I personally find this a very interesting game, and I hope it's not called off now.

AvatarDJFlux from a remote computer: I have not lost the interest at all! It is just that the game has reached a very delicate point, and a mistake now would mean spoiling a fine game.
So I am taking my time studying the position, maybe too much time... Still, I think a good amount of thought is required now!
I am very busy too, in my normal life and at work, but I apologise if I have given the impression that I lost interest. OTOH, I do not feel we have to rush at all... This is after all a teaching (and learning) game!

JoeSeki: Glad to hear from you!! I was getting worried. How about you open up a variation page to consider what you are thinking. We could all comment on them, and maybe find the right move for you. Personally I think you have to push as best you can and then give up the attack on the white stones and patch up your weakness. White would have to do the same, and then you can try something new. I do agree with you that we have all the time we need, it was just a drastic change from prior speeds. Just stay in touch and all will be fine :)

JoeSeki W84: This is the only move I think. There are others to consider, but I think this is the best. I've analized each move a great deal. Barring any complete misreads I think this is the best move for White. Black is in for some trouble I think. When I have time I'll document some of the variations. I considered b-d as alternatives, and I don't think any of them are as good as this. Would anyone be interested in the variations associated with b-d?

DJ: I for one am interested of course. I must say I really didn't expect this move! I analysed only variations stemming from c and e (it seems you didn't consider the latter).
Problem was, all variations were really far-fetching with oh so many sub variations. Very difficult, and I agree, black is thin. I'll see what i can do...

DJ B83: After so much celebrating (ehm... drinking, eating and being generally merry till late...) my brain feels full of cotton...
It may be that you're right, my stones are quite thin and I seem not to be able to come up with a severe attack, despite having tried many sequences.
I cannot think of anything better... I also thought about a, but it seems to be even more thin. Stronger advice is required...

JoeSeki W82: Your attack seems too loose to me. Let's see if we can break it apart and help my stones at the same time. Hope you have a wonderful Holiday Season

AvatarDJFlux: Well, in fact my attack is also meant to keep you busy in order to bring at the same time some help to my stones on the leftside... ;-)
My best wishes to you too, Joe, and to whom you love.

AvatarDJFlux B81: I am sorry too, I'm very busy at work and little time is left for enjoying myself...
Well, I thougth, and thought, and again wasted my brain cells on silly sequences, then finally I got fed up with caution... If I repeat times enough that my group is in no danger, then it will survive! (How childish! This is another bad treat of me...)
So I forsake prudence and jump ahead!
My move casts threatening glances to your three stones... Will you worry about them??!?



[Diagram]
Moves 71-80


JoeSeki W80: Sorry I was away on Thanksgiving vacation. As much as I think this black group is vulnerable to a sever attack that might kill it, I feel compelled to protect myself. There are a few weakness you could probe at that would give you easy life if I attacked prematurely. So Patience first

DJ Black 79: Yup! I asked because I didn't see your UserName, just the IP address...
Let's see how I'm going to live, then we should count the score again.

JoeSeki W78: Yes I fixed my mistaken numbering.

DJ Black 77: Joe, is it you that corrected the numbered diagram? I assume so, and this is my answer.
What's going on here reminds me quite a lot of what happened in the RS a few moves ago... Oh thy fearful symmetry!

JoeSeki White 76: I think you have some eye shape trouble here. I think this attack on your group is sente and also works with all my stones in the area. The forcing move of Black 73 doesn't look so good right now.

dnerra: Maybe Black 71 was already a bit slow. After all, white can't jump in very deeply. (White a can be stopped with Black 71, e.g.) Instead playing at 72 or b looks more attractive.

DJ Black 75: I cannot come with anything fancier, I have to protect somehow this group and I couldn't find a defensive move that could also play a role in the attack of the three white stones. Attack to be postponed for the time being and maybe forever...
I just hope this doesn't leave me way behind.

JoeSeki White 74: I think I'll attack your bigger group then and settle my white stones as I attack. One stone is not as important as a group. I think I'll settle my stones and take territory as this fight develops. I think Black 73 must be a two-space extension first to a (now B75).

DJ Black 73: I can't resist! I cannot resist! Kikashi first and then...
After White 72 you have more sure territory, but I should manage to get something by attacking the three white stones.
Sorry to have made you wait, but I've been directing the Rome Tournament...

JoeSeki White 72: I think that the game is even, but how the three white stones get resolved will decide the game.

DJ Black 71: To answer your question: yup, I want that territory badly enough... To answer my question: yup, I promised myself to play a calm and collected game, not to go on reckless attacks... ;-)
Now I ask *you* a question: How badly do you want those three stones to live? ;-)))

P.S. If I try to count the territory as it is now, it gives me:

White:
UL 15+
LL 12+
LR 10
CR 5
Total: 42+ plus komi

Black:
UR 37
LC 5+
Total 42+ plus influence

Dead even, I would say! What do you think? Is there any strong player willing to make a better assessment?


[Diagram]
Moves 61-70


JoeSeki White 70: How badly did you want that territory?

DJ Black 69: For the time being, I'll keep on answering submissively...

JoeSeki White 68 I don't have a clue how to play this middle game.

DJ B67: I've read somewhere this is a submissive sequence, but that was referred to a boshi on the fifth line: I wonder whether taking territory on the fifth line has to be considered such...
I've also considered an aggressive answer at h, but I wasn't that confident I could kill you... ;-)))

JoeSeki Extend left or right. I choose right so as to damage your moyo, and gain thickness in the middle.

DJ Black 65: This is a sort of weird move (but neither have I often seen a cap on the sixth line...), not very aggressive.
Again, it was difficult to choose. I considered the "normal" answer at now 67, but then you would play the classic contact move on the other side, and there's no telling whether I'd manage to keep sente.
I also considered k, an outright aggression that could lead you inside my moyo, but if then I don't manage to kill you...
So I decided for a "no-tricks-mate" move... hoping to keep sente. Decidedly, this is a weird shape...

dnerra: Hmm, I think B67 would have been fine here. If white attaches at l, you can play B65, White m and you cut at Black h. That's a nice fight, with good shape for you and exactly where you want to fight!

AvatarDJFlux: I see the time you took for your next move was well spent: your analysis is definitely thorough, and the move you came up with is very difficult to deal with. For example you're entirely right when you say that if I stick to my moyo you're going to get thickness, and my group to the left could be endangered.
I'm enjoying this game more and more, and I'd really love to see some comments from stronger players, not only for us but for all the lurkers out there... ;-)))
Now it is my turn, and I'll try to match your effort!

JoeSeki White 64 I have been studying this board pattern very closely, and believe it is a perfect problem for discussion. Fundamentally I think White has made a horrible blunder early in the game by letting the white group on the right side become isolated White 38 was probably wrong?, and giving Black such thickness. But we are here, and the problem is where should White play now? White has about 30 points on the board. Black has about 25 with a tremendous moyo possible in the top right. If he closes that off, it's a 50-point gain, and the game is almost resignable. So I looked at the points a-f (f is now White 64) and each deserves some evaluation. Maybe in depth if necessary to clarify the situation.

If I choose a then I think the proper black answer is to settle his stones on the lower side and let the single black stone fend for itself. White's move at a does not develop well.

If I choose b then Black could take a two-space extension as well, but it would be a mistake. White gets profit for free, and then White gets another move. If Black locks down his moyo in the top right then Black gets much more profit than White did; and the black group can still settle with the extension, or run away. So it has choices. Only if Black makes a mistake by following along is b a good move. Black should ignore it.

If I choose c it invites Black to seal his moyo, and that becomes harder to reduce or invade. 50 points for Black, for White 15? Doesn't seem fair.

If I choose d then I am recognizing that invading will be really tough. I intend to run anyway. But where do I run to? My stones are very, very far away. It won't be a pleasant journey for sure. You'll build more thickness to negate what territory I do have, and I think it's pessimistic.

If I choose e then I think it will get swallowed as Black is very strong locally and it's not a good reducing move. It's complex, but I think it's a bad move and not even worth considering.

The general focus of all my attention has been how big a moyo Black might get. If I let him finish it off, then White has a very hard game. So a leaning move or a cap is proper. But a cap on the fourth line? Wow! If you take a knight's move away, then I can play c to see if you really wanted that territory as f (f is now White 64) was not hurt too badly with a knights move. If you chase me out, I'm already on the outside and will get thickness instead and then the moves at a or b might become worthwhile for White. If you ignore it, then I really get to damage the upper right black position. So the problem on how to answer becomes very difficult for Black. I'm not sure about a leaning attack. The cap seems straightforward.

I think if White chooses wrong here, the game is essentially over. This is the kind of position that turns the game one way or another.

I choose f (White 64)

DJ Black 63: I'm afraid I have to patch my shape here. Black 53 was meant to do something that it cannot do anymore, that's why I said I've wasted three moves...

JoeSeki White 62: Definitely sente for you. I think White 54 should be here instead, then this side would be tough for you. But I think you can handle yourself on the left. I think central influence is still important for White. As I look at the game. I see solid white groups, and a few weak black groups. Black 53 is too far away from the bottom stones and will come under attack. and the left side needs to be settled or it will become heavy. Black's moyo is not quite complete yet either, in the top right. I'd like to see the opinion of a stronger player though.




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This is a copy of the living page "Teaching Game 67" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2004 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.