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Face To Face Vs Internet Go
Path: PhilosophyAndGo   · Prev: PhilosophersStones   · Next: ProfessionalPlayersGoStyles
    Keywords: Clubs & Places

Hiya. I wanted to see if people were interested in sharing their thoughts on the relative merits of playing go in person and over a computer.

I'll start out by saying that I personally prefer playing in person, and even that my playing is noticeably stonger in person, probably because it is not at easy to play impulsively as it is by pointing and clicking, and I generally feel more comfortable taking more time between moves when I am playing someone in person. Then there is the pleasure of being able to place the stone on the board, and observe the pleasant aesthetic of a partially populated goban. The sheer volume of games you can play on the internet at any time though seem to make it a valuable tool for learning and practice. I simply can't play five games in a row testing out a new strategy in person. With regards to improvement, I think internet go helps improve the mechanics more, and face to face is better at improving your overall feel of the game.

--BlueWyvern

BlueWyvern, why don't you try this trick, which works well for me? Hold some sort of object, say a squeeze ball, in your mouse hand while you think about your move, then make your move when you're ready. This should cut down the number of impulse mistakes caused by having one's hands on the mouse during Internet play. Indeed, this practice is good too for over-the-board play.

--Tamsin Jones


Internet play implies mostly fast games. Fast games are good to test your reflexes, and your tactical evaluations "at a glance". For applying new concepts and deeper reading you can better do in slower paced games.

I also agree with your thoughts above.

--DieterVerhofstadt


Internet play completely changes the availability of Go. Twenty-four hours a day from almost anywhere in the world (except behind the company firewall :-). As I write this on a Monday evening Asian time there are 824 players and 247 games on IGS. There are 173 players within 1 rank difference of me. By contrast, a week ago I was at the Takadanobaba Go Club in Tokyo. It is a pretty big club with about 75 boards which are all in use on weekends. But out of the 150+ players there on a Sunday afternoon probably only 15 or so are within one stone of my rating. Worst of all, half of them smoke! In Japan at least that is the biggest negative side to playing over the board. The Go club population is aging in Japan. Most Go clubs are low-rent locations with poor ventilation and are absolutely full of smoke. When I go to the club here, I need a shower when I get home (literally :-). Nevertheless, I think face to face is a lot more fun than on the internet.

I do think that the internet (and the computer) is a better place/way to study games. I spend a lot of time watching high-d* games on IGS and have collected hundreds of games by various strong players for later study. Playing through the games using an sgf editor gives me a much better picture of the dynamics of the play than I can get from books. This is a pity in a way because I very much like the feel of the stones!

--DaveSigaty

Note by Stefan: Dave, there is a way to play go on the usual servers from behind the company firewall, using your favourite version of the usual clients. I'll document it in Connecting Through Firewalls. Arno/Morten - can we have a floor in the library where under 18s are not allowed, for seasoned librarians to start documenting adults-only go-related knowledge? ;-)


1. Availability

Agree completely. Our club has only about 20 members, and only three of them are within one stone (but I take white all the time). If I stay away to play on the internet, that would hardly be an improvement to the situation.

2. Smoke

Fortunately, only 2 of those 20 are smokers (although in the late hours I don't refuse a cigarette myself). It is true however that one of the clubs in Brussels has its playing venue in a crowded pub. Last time I went, I had a dinner party at a friend's place afterwards. Before going to the club, I checked with him if I could take a shower at his place. No problem it was, but still a weird thing to ask.

--Dieter


Here's something I tried this weekend that I actually found nice/helpful. Make sure you have a client that can be set to beep with each move, and shows the last move. Next, set up a board next to your computer, and then challange someone to a game with long time limits. At least 30/10. Granted it's still not as good as being face to face with an opponent, but I find it much easier to think through variations and play on a real board. The down side is, some people will accept your matches then play speedy fast anyway, so you aren't sure if your opponent is putting as much thought into it as you are. Also, make sure you stay aware of the time!

--BlueWyvern


Moved some discussion to RatingMappingsAndPlayingStyles --BlueWyvern


--JanDeWit: I'm afraid of playing Go on internet servers... Why? My opponents are faceless, winning is all that counts, if I lose I learn nothing except that I made a bad move 'somewhere' and there is always the chance of my internet connection dropping - which I think is rude. No handicap play by default is also a big loss.

I'd much rather play against some of the regulars here, I have the feeling that I know who you are... But you'd probably find it boring since my far-fetched ideas about influence and such tend to get bogged down in tactical mistakes.


Scartol: Yeah, I'd have to second this. I was hoping to find a thread about Yahoo! Go, but it looks like this is as close as I'm likely to come. I can't stand playing Go on Yahoo!, just as I can't stand playing Othello there. With the latter, I always win, but that doesn't keep me from having to deal with obnoxious youngsters who care very little for rhythm, flow, or subtlety.

Without these elements, Go is meaningless for me.


Hyppy: What I miss most while playing over internet go is the personal aspect. Simple discussiosn about the weather, the club, the latest movie, etc keep a casual game interesting and fun. A faceless, silent opponent losing horribly or beating the crap out of you with no words other than "Hi," "GL," "GG," and "thx," really makes the game frustrating.


Naustin: I think some of this has to do with what server just as in real life place makes a difference. I remember about 5 years ago trying out playing on the internet. I liked some of the services like automatic game records but felt intimidated by those faceless opponents. I have also played on yahoo! but the fun games were few and far between what with the sheer volume of random people. More recently I have been playing on IGS and KGS. IGS reminds me of that first experience with internet go. It's somewhat intimidating though I feel more comfortable with my game now. KGS is a very nice place to play where the stronger players have often taken the time to review games with me and I have had chances to chat briefly about where we live or the game in general. ON IGS I also find that because it is complicated to handicap it seems people don't really mingle between ranks as much. (I've read here there are other reasons for that as well) I have been getting alot of both FTF and internet recently and find they provide me with different things but that I enjoy both. Face to face is more about friendship in a way. I prefer to play with people I like regardless of strength differences and if I don't like someone then the game isn't much fun even if it is close. Hope this post isn't too long:-)

BobMcGuigan: I, too, like the aesthetic of go with real board and stones. And I like the social interaction that happens in the club setting. But I find some advantages to internet go, too. For example, I can concentrate on the position without the various distractions so common in the club. On the internet I automatically get an SGF record of every game so it is easy to review them afterward, at my leisure. I'm grateful for both settings.



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