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More Variations Thanthe Taisha
    Keywords: Question

Hi, I know that's a big claim, but trust me this'll be worth your valuable time or else it will be removed from the wiki.

So, I am told this ought to be deleted but I don't know how to do that. If anybody wanders by who does know how please do!

I am Andrew Hutzel and this is my first try at this sort of thing, so if I've done something dumb like make a board with 20 lines please tell Hu cause he's the most polite person I know (jk don't want to flood him!). It's a discussion page, I'm looking for anyone's opinion on two cuh-razy things I stumbled on to see if they are only crazy or if they have a sublime element to them as well. But especially single digit kyus and dans, cause they would know better than the rest of us! well here it is the first diagram here is an actual game I played and demonstrates a potential set of josekis that I (currently) believe may outnumber the variations of the taisha joseki . By the Way, the fuseki that I (black) used really would only work with a 2 stone handicap as was given in the actual game.

[Diagram]
emtech vs crazygonut KGS

So, let me first expalain the unorthodoxy of move 2: I was going super duper for the center. I know, silly. But I knew that white would do one of two things: not play the 4-4 before I could strengthen that corner or do so. In the first case I planned to strengthen the corner just as one would if one had played an orthodox 3-4. Of course my choice of strengthening moves was kinda out there, and my opponent challenged me to defend my still newborn theory just out of the shell. So the result was I treated the 5-5 and 3-3 as seperate entities: I first pretended that whtie had simply played a 4-4 under my 5-5, and then his next move forced me to pretend that it was instead a case of my 3-3 getting capped by his 4-4. but they quickly connected, making a highly interesting shape.


[Diagram]
the interesting part

SnotNose: What does this diagram have to do with the next? What is your question?

well here's the real reason opening is a keyword for this page: this is a fuseki that I have been mulling over since I was 25kyu (not that long ago, just gives you an idea of its dubious origin in the mind of a silly kid). So, uh, any help you could give me would be very, um.....helpful.


[Diagram]
Fuseki or just a pretender?

So I am thinking that white either keeps running Black along the second line or threatens to take corner eyspace away. But in my mind wither way Black lives and so can tenuki what ever move 10 is so in this diagram we chose to keep running Black along with white ten ( the red dotted stone is Black 11. And the objective is realized (whether it is a smart/legit one is debatable); that being to force white to take much inward influence hoping it is negated by that of the Black tengen, and then take a corner with a 3-4 designed to balance the slight lopsidedness inherent in 3-3 joseki's. My question for everyone is basically summed up as would this never get played? To be more specific: Black has two conflicting goals. Those being to finish out as much as possible/necessary of the 3-3 joseki and take the opposite corner. So can Black do enough of the joseki and still have sente to take the opposite corner? Can Black accomplish these two goals? The other problem with this is that more so than the Great Wall (will soon credit creator of that one here) your opponent has to not see it coming and not stop it early. Basically play along. So I guess that is only really an issue if this is a good fuseki, otherwise white wouldn't feel a need to stop playing along.

SnotNose: I cleaned up your diagram a bit. BC is Black 11.



Anon: Could you make more diagrams to explain your questions more clearly?

Also suggest moving this to a BigQuestionMark as the page title seems inappropriately provacative and is likely to mislead most SL readers (which isn't a nice way to post).

 I see. I will try to do that (not a pro at this) and move it to /?NeedInput?

Is there anything else to do other than label this a discussion page, I thought that would identify this as not being a factual page. Also, it is currently so ugly that only a father could love it, I don't know how to get it to look as nice as the other SL pages.

Anon: The page is not ugly. Only it is quite hard to make out your question as you have a lot of extra stuff. The first two diagrams don't seem to relate to the third. If you break down your questions more carefully and clearly, you might get a response. (I would suggest abandoning the first two diagrams and all the text. Just put in the third one and ask if your tenuki is reasonable. You should be able to do that with one diagram and fewer than three lines of text. Keep the burden on the reader lower.)

See also my earlier comment about BigQuestionMark. Look at those pages (click edit to see how they're constructed) and make one for your question. Then ask in MessagesToPeopleCurrentlyPresentInTheLibrary for this page to be deleted. Then, generally take some time to explore SL and learn how pages are connected, where questions are posed, how they're posed, etc. It isn't that hard (anyone who can play Go can do it!). If you're going to use SL, it is worth learning how to do so reasonably well. Plus, you'll get a better response to your question if you make better use of the technology.

Later: Look, I've even done it for you (just this once). Go to BQM133 and click on edit to see the construction of the page. Add some stuff if you want, but I recommend keeping it simple. If you still want to ask something about your first two diagrams, then make a new BigQuestionMark question for them and copy them over. And then state your question (briefly!). Good luck. Thanks so much for the help Anon! I did kinda smush together two questions, and I didn't know about this BQM place. Someone already gave input on the one you were so nice to move for me! I jsut gotta not be so long-winded, which will also keep it from getting so ugly ;) Thanks again! I have a lot of work to do!



This is a copy of the living page "More Variations Thanthe Taisha" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2004 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.