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Omoshiroi talk
   

Omoshiroi (面白い) means interesting, amusing, joyful.

Bill: In Japanese go commentary, omoshiroi is a term of praise.

John F. In go it is usually a technical term (listed as such by e.g. Hayashi) and means "slightly better" (or more interesting for one side than the other), or said of a move than can be played with confidence. It's the most commonly mistranslated word in go.

Part of the problem is that the word can be used also in its normal sense, which is rather different from what most people imagine, and it also appears in go usages. E.g. omoshiroku naru is said of a game that was difficult so far but has now turned good for one side, and omoshiroku utsu is to play interestingly, i.e. as one fancies, not plainly). In the normal language it doesn't mean "interesting" in our normal sense of curious, stimulating the intellect. It means entertaining, fun, amusing.

I'm sure all Japanese are familiar with the (possibly cod) etymology of the word - Amaterasu's dance outside the cave to bring the sun back.

Bill: John, I'm curious about how omoshiroi has been translated. Is it usually translated as interesting? Has interesting become something of a go term in English? Sebastian's comment on the interesting page suggests not, or at least it is used in quite a different sense from omoshiroi. Or perhaps Sebastian misunderstood.

(Sebastian:) Sorry about any confusion. I wasn't referring to book translations. The entry in the interesting page was meant to tease you sensei(s) - hence Keyword=Humour.

Bill: I thought you were talking about your experience. Sorry I missed the humour connection. Oops! ;-)

John F. I've no statistics on this, just an impression, but "interesting" seems to score 9 out of 10. Sometimes it's OK, of course, but a common misuse is, say, a judgement on a joseki line where translators say this is "interesting for White". No real harm done, but "slightly better for White" would be more idiomatic, and in any case - as you know - "more interesting for White" would be better if you want to stick with that word. The only time any harm is done, I'd say, is with omoshiroku naru, but even there it's probably marginal.

I've no sense that anyone is using "interesting" as an English technical term. I don't believe many people realised there was a problem. But I'd personally prefer people to develop a term because it's an evaluative term, and I believe that we are weak in the west both with and on evaluation, which is what advanced go is all about. We need to move on beyond concrete terms such as hane and learn to talk to each other lucidly about how to evaluate a position. That means, in part, being able to rely on a shared sub-text. With omoshiroi, I'd suggest that the shared sub-text would be that, if you said to me "Shiro wa omoshiroi", I'd know: that you were almost certainly talking about the early part of the game, probably about a joseki but, at least, almost certainly about a tactical exchange; that we are likely to be talking about honte rather than a speculative moves (one reason why "interesting" can be a trap); and of course that it's better for White but not by much.

Bill: Thanks, John. :-)

SteveB: How about "promising" - something like "the situation is promising for White?" The implication being that there is still a contest to be waged, no single clear continuation, but that as the fight develops White will have the better chances.



This is a copy of the living page "Omoshiroi talk" at Sensei's Library.
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