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NYR 2002 - Moves 1 To 20
Keywords: Opening
Corner, side, and happiness[1]
HolIgor: The game reached an interesting stage, at which Black should decide if giving White the upper left corner is a good idea. Or if taking that corner with small life is better. It is not clear also if Black agrees to tolerate White's move to the left of z. Personally I would give the upper left corner to White. But how? A simple jump to the center? Or maybe tsuke one point below 10? Or kata at y? dnerra: White 20 -- we are not getting nervous about the lower right group, are we? :-) JamesA: I don't think 17 should have been played at the bottom. Black and White have stones on the third line here making it hard for either to make much territory. How would 17 have been played as a wedge one point to the left of 18? Or should 17 have been played in the top left to prevent a white framework here? Also, I can't help but feel that Black 11 would be better placed on the fourth line somewhere, or even at z. MikeNoGo Black 19: The 3-5 point looks like a good place to start an invasion of the upper left.
AvatarDJFlux B18: Well well well... I'll follow the proverb: "Big points before urgent ones"! (Oops.. or was it the other way round?!?) MikeNoGo : Despite your kind invitation, I decided to play an ogeima on the star point. I think it's a nice extension for the black group on the bottom and being on the fourth line gives a nice influence towards the center, for what it's worth. Bill: Well, for one thing, it prevents a White extension at d, aiming at Black's weakness in the corner. :-) dnerra: White 16 -- cordially inviting Black into the upper left corner :-). JamesA: Black 15 looks essential to me; it makes the black group safe, takes the corner territory, and most importantly weakens the white group above. I think White is starting to get into a difficult position...
Bill: White 14 is perhaps premature, as it eliminates the possibility of the crosscut at c or the nidanbane at 15. However, it may be considered a probe to see Black's response. White was willing to throw her HolIgor: Black has a handful of suitable moves in the lower right corner. The question is, however, whether White would reply? Just to remind the players that the clock is ticking. AvatarDJFlux: Hear, hear! Black players, where art thou??!?
AvatarDJFlux White 14: At this point is there any other move? By the way, I've read in some joseki books that
It is also true that Black has played both Black 11 and
Bill: Without the extension of Black 11, joseki is for Black to answer White 12 with Black 14 and connect to the circled stone while sacrificing the left-most TakeNGive: Having already chosen a sub-optimal move for Black, I won't do it; but my temptation is to put Black 15 at a since it looks like a juicy spot for White to cause trouble. But I don't like being so thoroughly in gote. Is b playable? JamesA: I think Black should play at c, if he plays in this area (which I think he probably should...).
JamesA: I just wanted to know people's opinion on a question that arose earlier. If (JamesA added a new page - Opening in New Years Rengo - to analyze this question in more depth. --DaveSigaty)
Bill: Your question is hard to answer in general terms. If As a rule, the extension on a side is not as good as keeping Black separated in the bottom right corner. However, if Black does connect and White makes a wall, that wall would work well with the extension on the side. It's an interesting idea, a good example of whole board thinking. Of course, you should expect that Black will not make that response.
This looks like a typical development. unkx80 (Black 13): I made a move, finally. :-) Bill (White 12): I don't think this is a bad time for this play. JamesA: Isn't Black 11 too easy on White? Black has already made a stable position on the lower side and I think a strong attack should be made on the two white stones. I think White can force with a and b (in diagram 'A') before playing in the top left to make a second enclosure. Won't this be fine for White?. I think Black should have played at c, White d, then at e to build a large framework whilst attacking. Thoughts from the dan players? Bill: If Black c - White d is heavy: better to tenuki. Besides, White still has f for easy sabaki. Black 9 and 11 both give White some elbow room.
TakeNGive (10k): Black 11; considered a through d before choosing 11, which seems patient. There's still aji in the corner for White, but I think Black can profitably harass the two floating stones. (Maybe better at e?)
Bill: Supposing, mindful of the weakness at a if he plays at Also, White later has the possibility of White c followed by White b, making light shape.
Bill: When would White like to play at b? After White 10? Which diagram? Do you mean the enclosure in the top left corner? How about White f or g?
AvatarDJFlux, Nevertheless, I have a feeling that she has to add a stone in the lower right before doing something like d on the upper side (the other option I fancied for move 10)
JamesA, Bill: It's certainly not a bad move. But Black has a local tally of two stones in the bottom right. Is Black's position there as good as an enclosure? No? Then how about preventing White's enclosure in the top left?
Also, because of
unkx80: Locally, is Bill: The book moves are a and b, right? JamesA: If Black plays b here I was worried that c would become a good play for White later on. If Black a, can't White play this:
... leaving Black a bit too concentrated on the right side? What do people think?
After
Bill:
Now Black can play a wedge on the bottom side.
Here (More can be said, here, but I do not want to influence the next few plays. If there are any. ;-))
BillSpight: In the old days, games could take months. Same here. ;-)
DaveSigaty: With
AvatarDJFlux May I say Happy New Year everybody even if it is Jan 9th?
HolIgor (a presenter): There was once a statement on rec.games.go that the side that builds two enclosures wins easily. The databases were searched and four games were found. In all four games the two enclosure side lost. So, the urgent question of the moment is whether White would allow Black to form a second enclosure. Other options for White are to form an enclosure of her own or to split the right side.
One mokuhazushi deserves another.
In consideration of all the Hikaru no Go Junkies out there I continued with the quite traditional [1] Whee! I made the first move! --BlueWyvern This is a copy of the living page "NYR 2002 - Moves 1 To 20" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |