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Wiki Vandal
    Keywords: SL description

A person of minimal intelligence who delights in defacing or maliciously deleting Wiki pages. This wretched creature longs to feel powerful and important, but lacks the ideas and patience to make original contributions to the discourse, and also lacks the courage even to try. Attempting to compensate for these deficiencies by attacking the work of others, the Wiki Vandal is doubly pathetic because they do not appear to realise that the work is easily restored, and that they can be traced, blocked and reported to their ISP. Vandalise if you will, but you will only make a fool of yourself.

Morten: Don't add people to the list below unless you are sure they are vandals. I found myself (or rather, the adress of our firewall) added by some zealous person as an 'alias' for Naruto. I had removed some junk from his homepage and I think this made me suspect?? Also please consider that often these people just want the attention. Don't give it to them. Live Long and Prosper.

mgoetze: It would be really good if not just anyone were allowed to edit RecentChanges.

Stefan: We seem to have our first persistent and recurring vandal behind IP 12.228.141.176. Arno - shall we block this individual permanently?

Zarlan: Why are the homepages of the WikiVandals chatouille and Naruto allowed to remain?

Arno: Just got an email from chatouille. I don't want to fan the flames, but his email is worthy to be posted to alt.humour ;o) Let's just say, he didn't understand what a wiki is. The problem with banning IP addresses is that most users are from dial-up lines, which means they have a different IP address every time they dial in and connect. That's why IP blocks on SL are temporary only. Blocking IP addresses is a good countermeassure to stop vandalism in progress. Permanent blocks are difficult to implement without a required username/password scheme.

Tristan: Then maybe we should consider a username/password scheme. It's got to be less of a nuisance than having constantly to restore vandalised pages.

Stefan: I'm not in favour of that. Up until now WikiVandal containment has been manageable, and implementing username/password would cease to make this a Wiki.

Charles: There is a point about growth, too. The more users SL has, the smaller the burden on individuals to restore any pages, and the more time that would be taken on logging in - not to speak of the diminished likelihood of vandalism succeeding beyond a nuisance level.

Morten: Quite. 1 idiot v. 100+ sensible users is not a fair contest, really.

Hu: It is a fair contest, even if it is a lop-sided one! Stupidity is its own reward. One could probably say the same thing about idiocy. Charles is right: The more eyeballs, the faster fixes happen. The SL library page was hit twice and was down for 14 + 62 = 76 minutes. Hikaru no Go was down for 63 minutes. In my experience, these are at the long end of the distribution of times before detection and repair.

Sebastian: Excuse me, I don't quite understand the reasons against requiring user names. I can think of some pros BC and cons WC, but I think the pros prevail:

B1 With the cookie, editing is a no-brainer. I can't imagine that it keeps many people from adding to SL.
W2 There are some great anonymous statements (such as the one in ClubFeesForDanPlayers, of which Andrew Grant said it "should be framed and hung up in every Go club in the world").
B3 There should be ways to grant people anonymity to the public, even if they log in under their name and the name may be known to admins.
W4 [ext] http://www.wikipedia.org/ has much more users, and they have other ways to cope with it, such as

  • watch lists, allowing every user to watch any wikis they care about
  • edit summary
  • more detailed change log
  • encouraging of reverting wikis

B5 What's in a word? Why is it so important to be "wiki"?
W6 (pass)
B7 It is polite to identify yourself when you have something to say.
W8 (pass)
B9 (pass)
-- 2003-09-10

wms: About the wiki vandals, and whether or not to add things like required passwords. I'd say, as long as the maintainers running sensei's can stand it, don't do anything. Sure, adding username/password isn't much inconvienience, but it is some. I really liked that I could come here and fool around a bit before I actually got myself a real sensei's user name, so it would be a loss to change this. Good for the people who undo the vandalism, I'm glad that they do! But I'd like to add, if wikis are anything at all like servers, then as sensei's gets more people involved, the work required to deal with vandals will keep on going up, and the wiki maintainers will eventually get fed up and have to do something about it. Sad but probably true.

Charles I believe the wiki theorists normally say that the slightly dull, encyclopedia-like quality of a developed wiki is a defence.

Sebastian: After reading wms's contribution I changed my mind. If it makes a difference to valid contributors such as him then it outweighs the little gain in security. WRT Charles' argument: I actually like it the way it is. It is true that we could do a better job at distinguishing encyclopedic and discussion pages, but I doubt that this would considerably change the problem. In my short experience at Wikipedia I saw several cases of vandalism in very encyclopedia-like articles. Unfortunately, vandals are not motivated by a love of beauty. My dictionary says "vandal: a person who, out of malice or ignorance, destroys or spoils any public or private property, esp. that which is beautiful or artistic.".

Ceterum censeo: There are other means that work much better, such as:

  1. (above all!) the watch lists Wikipedia introduced. Is there any chance we could introduce them? They work great: People take responsibility for pages in which they contributed, and they make it much easier to keep up with discussions even when you participate only once a week. Many of the current recent changes junkies would become subject matter experts.
  2. An easier way to revert pages (or is there one already?) -- 2003-09-22

Arno: Watchlists shouldn't be too hard to add. Reverting pages is easy: EditPage->Revive->Save -- 3 clicks should be easy enough, no?

Sebastian: I don't see anything to click on labelled "Revive". Maybe it's only visible for people with supernatural powers?
Arno: set deshi status at UserPreferences (LevelsOfAccess)
Sebastian: Thx, this worked. Should we remove this part of the conversation?

dnerra: About password/username: The German Go federation has a discussion forum on its [ext] web page, and for a while, a username password system was introduced there. This reduced the number of contributions by about 95 percent or so. So the barrier it creates is indeed higher than many might think.

Sebastian: Gasp! Who would have thought it made that much of a difference! Maybe it's because Germans are very concerned about privacy?

dnerra: I don't think so, as almost all people who post there use real names. It's just that the typical use of this forum is just for one post, and maybe a follow-up, and most don't bother to click through a username/password setup (that the might have to remember!) just for that.

Velobici: I contend that Wiki Vandals are not a real problem. There are many more people interested in improving the site rather than destroying it. Many more eyes and hands to fix to the damage than to create the damage. The pages are archived and can be revived. There is no motivation to persistently vandalize the site: the vandals are anonymous; there is no monetary incentive to vandalize; the damage keeps getting fixed. Wiki's are the only case I know of where [ext] the Tragedy of the Commons does not apply. This is due to the lack of monetary incentive. So, the vandals will tire and go away. They will look for a place that provides them greater emotional payoff for their efforts. We have a community here that the vandals can not take from us. The can not join us unless they stop being vandals. We only need to continue our activities as we do today to win against the vandals every time.


Vandal IP list, most recent first (pages purposely not linked):

  • 213.42.2.12 : defaced CoffeeMachine and canceled WikiEtiquette
  • joniboy999: StartingPoints
  • 218.69.178.7 : home page props changed
  • 148.243.192.254: Weiqi was modified.
  • 216.11.121.21: bess-proxy.rosd.k12.mi.us: FrontPage and others. Repeat offender, 20031005, 20031015.
  • 165.196.153.113: Los Rios Community College, Sacramento: FrontPage
  • 80.238.48.231: trn-dhcp-48-231.urbanet.ch: WikiWikiWeb
  • 24.62.166.60: h00c002ce10a1.ne.client2.attbi.com: HikaruNoGoManga
  • 68.146.71.23: h68-146-71-23.cg.shawcable.net; signed invidious
  • 209.239.31.110: ppp110.f1.56k.execulink.com; RankGupKoreanExplained
  • 66.112.95.245: p1-66-112-95-245-rt-bras.pell.centurytel.net WhyDontWeOpenAtTengen
  • 12.228.141.176: 12-228-141-176.client.attbi.com: messed up SenseiSLibrary, HikaruNoGo, CoffeeMachine!, RecentChanges! etc.
  • 80.14.207.127: ABordeaux-103-1-23-217.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr, Destroyed the frontpage, Nickname Chatouille, same "chatouille" of KGS.
  • 12.235.55.49: 12-235-55-49.client.attbi.com deleted the sandbox around the same time as 12.228.141.176 was active.
  • 66.13.203.194.in-addr.arpa: Naruto erased WikiWikiWeb and defaced a home page.
  • 213.67.171.45: h45n2fls34o884.telia.com
  • 80.50.231.59: vd59.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl
  • 212.44.43.20: complaints to abuse@dialnet.co.uk to complain.
  • 62.166.36.112: dslam112-36-166-62.adsl.zonnet.nl
  • 202.155.107.242: APNIC IP, somewhere in Pacific Asia
  • 129.188.33.222: wwwgate2.motorola.com
  • cableone.net user apologized in Sandbox. Removed IP address since there were no recurrences.
  • 24.175.248.144: cpe-24-175-248-144.gt.rr.com
  • 207.45.248.22: parwch04-up1.sgib.com (see below)
  • 68.166.203.253: h-68-166-203-253.DLLATX.covad.net (see CastleGames)
  • 212.85.18.61:
  • 80.126.6.236: a80-126-6-236.adsl.xs4all.nl
  • 67.11.146.135: cs6711146-135.satx.rr.com
  • 68.120.129.255: adsl-68-120-129-255.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net: see NonJosekiExercise5Solution
  • 198.26.125.13: wcs2-scott.nipr.mil US Military!
  • 193.0.96.15: fw-gw-atm.mimuw.edu.pl
  • 203.170.132.181, Parker: dial-181.ras-9.bkk.c.cscoms.com
  • 64.168.21.1: adsl-64-168-21-1.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net
  • 148.78.247.10: cf2.mrt.starband.net
  • 202.56.138.198: APNIC block

Note: IP's change if the user logs in on a dynamic IP, as most big ISPs provide, but patterns may emerge. For example, 68.120.128.31 and 64.168.21.1 may be the same vandal. ISPs can be contacted to get them (possibly) to check their logs and to notify the user to stop defacing pages. The US military might be interested in their vandal as one of their own, or a hacker launching from that IP. Call it that to get the ISP's attention. It doesn't matter if it sounds like hacking but is only a wiki, it is still defacing pages. After repeated notifications (sometimes after the first), they will cancel the account.


Regarding 207.45.248.22: June 18, around 13.00 GMT, backed off after changing FrontPage and Go, restored by tsjanl. I don't think that was a vandal really. Zook.

The vandal responded in the sandbox:

Sorry tsjanl !! If you read this message I appologize for the modifications i made on pages Go and Frontpage!! It was just a test to see what kind of measures you apply if someone do anything here (i found nothing about that on the site)!!! That's a great site !! You were right 207.45.248.22 is absolutly not a vandal !! I'm looking forward to subscrite to this site then i won't be anonymous anymore !

We can hope the vandal has learned a lesson, even though we see the illogical vandal saying they vandalized the first page to see how SL responds to vandals so therefore it isn't vandalism.

tsjanl: I reacted when he changed the goban on the Go page. Maybe I should react a bit less directly next time.

Hu: I can find no fault with your approach, tsanjl. You quickly reversed the defacement, you alerted the vigilant monitors via this page, and you clearly have thought about it. I think 207.45.248.22 was a vandal but has learned a lesson, thanks to your swift reaction.

207.45.248.22: Sorry to bother you, i told i wasn't a vandal ! I asked a legetimate question on the Frontpage. I was so surprise to find a site that every one can modify all the contents ! I asked wether if was dangerous or not. It wasn't vandalism. The only trick i did was to add some star points on the Go page ;-). It was my first time here ! So i'm absolutly not a vandal ! Thanks to you tsjanl I won't be upset anymore about the content here ! Thanks for your job ! I subscribed to this site ! I'm not anonymous anymore: my name is egao ! I'm very pleased to discover this site !!! (excuse my english ...)

Confused: Egao, it really doesn't matter whether it was vandalism or a simple misunderstanding. The damage has been undone, you understand now how this Wiki works. In my experience, people here get judged by their current behaviour, not by their sins in the past. So the best course of action is to go and enjoy the site, contribute where you think you have a worthwhile contribution and let the past rest.


Nico: What kind of behaviour should people adopt when such defacement attempts appear?

  • Alert people currently present
  • Wait for librarian to revive pages
  • Revive oneself the last page ASAP when available

Charles: The FrontPage has been revived, and I expect the admins will block Mr. or Ms 193.0.96.15 shortly. The main thing is to use this page to flag the attack.

Arno: If you are the first one after a defacement, then you can revive the page (you need to set "deshi" status as your wiki experience in UserPreferences). If you are a "deshi" then click on edit-page and you will see a link below the text-area called "Revive previously archived version" Click there and you should get the original page. If this doesn't work (too many versions saved meanwhile) then only librarians or admins can revive the page (through the info&history page).

I blocked the IP address now (for 12 hours). Charles, librarians can block IP addresses as well. See the librarian and admin page.


As a regular visitor of KGS, I have noticed an increase in references to SL. That in itself is a joyful thing. As a side-effect, people start making kibbitzes like "[ext] http://senseis.xmp.net/?ShutYourMouthMoron". Recent wiki vandalisms and poor attempts to be funny may find their origin there. -- Dieter


HolIgor: There is one point. Several times when I pressed save button all context of the page disappeared. It happened only with Netscape on my UNIX box, never with IE under Windows or Netscape under Linux. I restored the page immediately, but not everybody knows how. I think that is the bug of the browser that fails to send the text to the server at the moment when old record has been deleted.


Tristan: Spamming is another problem familiar to users of Sensei's Library. To find tips for combatting spam, so as to leave more time free for studying and playing go, visit SpankASpammer.


Anonymous: Don't count the filter at "lewiston.k12.id.us" This is a school server, and I am not responsible for 900 students.

(Sebastian:) This is an interesting point to discuss: So who is responsible? Can students just do what they want? Should someone who is responsible for a server be able to reveal the name of someone who misuses it?



This is a copy of the living page "Wiki Vandal" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2003 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.