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Sow Discord in the Enemy's Camp
Path: PleaseReviewMe · Prev: AttachmentOnTheSecondLine · Next: GameTheory Path: SecretArtOfWar · Prev: EmptyCityPloy · Next: InflictInjuryOnOneselfToWinTheEnemySTrust
Difficulty: Beginner
Keywords: Tactics, Strategy, Proverb
One interpretation: Since you are desperate (and you are probably losing), it can't hurt to invade a base that has not yet established two eyes. Your opponent might have to respond (you gain sente) and he might mess up, allowing you to destroy his group. If played right, you lose no points because for every piece you play in his camp, he has to respond with a piece of his own. So you lose one stone and he loses a space on the board. This is probably not very elegant. But you are desperate. Isn't the net result one point for the other player. You place one stone in his territory, he defends with a stone of his own. You end up dying. Each of his stones lose him one point of territory. Each of your stones give a prisoner and a point of territory, so it gives him +2. with a net difference of +1 in his favor for each stone... I guess it depends if you play with the Japanese or Chinese rule sets. StormCrow: No, the space you played on was already his territory, so that was already your opponent's point. A move inside your opponent's territory that is responded to is zero-sum. That's why ko threats don't generally lose points.
Here is an example: The Comb Formation is alive. However, if White were desperate, she could play at a or b. This requires Black to respond to keep the group alive. So the net point exchange is 0; but Black may commit a fatal error (White hopes) and not protect the group, in which case White has won the group. -- SifuEric unkx80: You have a point, but from a practical point of view, such moves wastes ko threats. Also, if this is overdone, then I don't think that it is nice etiquette. If you think that you are really losing and have no chance of winning, perhaps you should just resign? SifuEric: I think you are absolutely right. I was just trying to give my interpretation of the strategy. Especially if you have no chance of winning, resign. You will keep your dignity and people will still play you. I would only use this strategy if winning that particular game were extremely important (and etiquette not quite as important). Never in a friendly game. Gorobei: The main problem of applying war proverbs to Go is that they often just don't apply. Much of the writing of Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, and the author(s) of the 36 stratagems is concerned with explaining how war is more than just massed troops fighting to the death on a muddy field. Many stratagems, if applied to Go, would be considered bad sportsmanship (or "gamesmanship" for those who have read Stephen Potter or watched Bobby Riggs) E.g...
TakeNGive 10k: Who is the enemy? Where is the camp? Andre Engels 3D: If I were to choose an interpretation of this in Go terms, I would first look at the preparation of invasions: Start with some easily discarded kikashi, which only serve to 'sow discord', before you throw in the important invasion stones. Another thing would indeed be probing moves. By making the opponent play first, you are making his stones sit on the wrong places. More generally, one could apply this proverb to any tactic that makes the opponent's stones have incorrect shape for the occasion. Karl Knechtel ~14k: I have done this sort of thing successfully against computer opponents. I will play out my ko threats at the end of the game, not with a fully-calculated plan, but because the computer won't care. Often one threat will lead to another until eventually the play is very big locally (sometimes I think this is due to suboptimal play by the computer, but I am never patient enough to analyze these things fully), and if I do not end up winning outright then the computer often ends up setting up an actual ko there - so I go and play a ko threat somewhere else. That threat is too small, so the computer takes the ko and seemingly renders my huge desperate play moot - except that I win the ko threat that I wouldn't otherwise have been entitled to. Almost like "Make a feint to the east while attacking in the west" I suppose, only much less polite ;) One time I took an extra 10 points against GNU Go this way when I thought I was losing - it turns out I was winning anyway, but I still enjoyed playing the sequence because I had to think quite a bit about every play in order to achieve the gain. (Had GNU Go not been able to stop me with the ko, it would have been a much bigger loss than 10 points - I think it was about 30.) Rich: If one really wants to apply military strategy to go, I read this as using aji and kikashi to its full potential; knowing how to, and then having the timing for it. In its original intent it applies to demoralising the rank and file; a Go general can rely on perfectly obedient troops, only his judgement is to blame for his defeat. Path: PleaseReviewMe · Prev: AttachmentOnTheSecondLine · Next: GameTheory Path: SecretArtOfWar · Prev: EmptyCityPloy · Next: InflictInjuryOnOneselfToWinTheEnemySTrust This is a copy of the living page "Sow Discord in the Enemy's Camp" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |