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Joseki context - different pincers
Difficulty: Advanced
Keywords: Opening, Joseki, Strategy
Original discussion from 3-4 point distant high approach from the wrong direction.
It concerned the effect of the
Charles I don't think you can call this joseki. I believe the pros play
SnotNose This seems quite nice for Black.
Charles It isn't bad locally. If Black wanted to play for a framework on the left side, Black will not then want to treat
I'd better perhaps check for this in pro games, before getting myself in any deeper ...
Later: OK, the database says they stopped playing this about ten years ago.
I wrote this up at dnerra: I agree with Charles that this is bad for black for strategic reasons. However, I have also two comments on the local sequence: The sequence shown is IMHO locally clearly superior for black than the standard joseki. There are two differences: The extension on the upper is usually played on the third line. This is, I think, no big difference. The 2nd is that the marked black stone is usually at c. Due to the two forcing moves at a and d, the position here is better.
On the other hand, I doubt very much that white would play at
BobMcGuigan: Another local observation is that the stone
dnerra: Do you really feel this is over-concentrated? The white stone has considerably less aji the way
Bob: You are right that the white stone has a lot less aji this way. But I wonder whether this makes the Snotnose This leads back to one of my original concerns. When, if ever, is this corner sequence (once considered joseki and still played by amateurs) appropriate? Does it depend on the position of the flanking black stones? If so, why? One way to answer would be to search pro games for just the corner sequence and catalog the positions of the pincer stones. Of equal interest are follow-up moves. Charles It will always depend on any adjacent stones already present: certainly within a 10x10 square, and more generally (see joseki context).
Snotnose One of the diagrams on 3-4 point high approach, two-space high pincer, ogeima has a corresponding statement that "
Charles The This is a copy of the living page "Joseki context - different pincers" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |