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Joseki and tenuki
Keywords: Joseki
Following a discussion with Tristan Jones here are some thoughts on tenuki in joseki.[1] Let's take this familiar joseki as a first example:
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After I'd be interested to see other examples. Grauniad: The main message of this page is apparently that when studying joseki it's important to analyze whether or not a player can tenuki after each move and if not why not.[3] This analysis should be included with the description of the joseki. There are too many examples to include here. :-) Charles Matthews This is certainly a helpful approach: though one can question absolute judgements here[1]. The basic idea here is an 'oscillation of urgency' of the next play. If you add to that a comparison with the urgency of the most important play elsewhere, you get a fundamental picture: an oscillating graph with a horizontal line across it, dividing the tenuki region below from the 'don't play tenuki region' above. (Often the temperature language is used here, but after previous discussion on SL I think we evolved a convention about using urgent for informal discussion, hot in relation to theoretical discussion.)
The next point is about why there is oscillation. True believers in the temperature approach often think in terms of a 'trend line' according to which what you could call the urgency of big points decreases steadily during the game. For example in the endgame you have the gote plays that are taken in decreasing order, the game being spiced up with sente excursions for both sides that temporarily raise temperature. The next question is, how useful is that thinking in the opening? Well, there are some cases of genuine sente plays in joseki, for example when a key group of stones is placed in atari and must be saved. But otherwise the 'sente-ness' of plays is subject to the kind of interrogation made here.
I'd say that one of the more useful explanations of what goes on is the Jim Kerwin remark quoted on One-Two-Three. Don't let your opponent make your plays look misplaced. In joseki that tends to say this: play tenuki early enough - don't play out too many moves and then decide to break off. The fewer moves you have played out, the less likely you are to have them made to look silly. That has to be balanced off against the forcing play aspect ( Treating the other really common joseki in the same way:
Here See also tenuki joseki: this page is more about ending early, while that is more about resumption. For example, this tenuki development is standard in the context of a Shusaku fuseki.
Never say 'never' about tenuki is a good motto. Charles
Bill: It is also possible for White to omit the extension. White can respond at a to a pincer. Recently I saw an ancient game where there was neither an extension nor a pincer throughout the whole game! Rather, a moyo evolved.
Yes, for an ideal treatment of joseki, tenuki at each point would always be one of the variations. One can say, however, that
See also Non Joseki Exercises for more analysis related to why certain moves in a joseki are played that way and not some other way.
Tristan Jones
Sorry Charles, with the greatest respect, I'm going to have to differ from you.
Charles I think Tristan is right from a didactic point of view. At least up at about 2 dan level. That is, mistakes coming from playing tenuki when you shouldn't will outweigh lost opportunities of playing tenuki when you can, perhaps for the bulk of amateurs. On the other hand one needs to develop flexible attitudes to become a strong amateur, and this is a prime example of what that means, in the way of being able to override 'template' thinking. This is a copy of the living page "Joseki and tenuki" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |