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Keywords: SL description
On this page you can share and discuss your thoughts about SL's technical features. An index for dissusions on other topics is at the Library Lobby. June 17, 2003: DougRidgway: I see the same coordinate error on my Doug's go blog May 2003 page. Is it something I'm doing wrong?
Also, I'm trying out
using (abusing?) footnotes to make internal anchors and links for the individual blog entries. Would it be possible to link to these anchors from outside the page, like [DougSGoBlogMay2003#030523]? I suppose I could do an external link June 13, 2003: DaveSigaty: I am seeing errors in the placement of the coordinates on diagrams ($$Bc option). The letters are displaced to the right and appear as A-S only while the numbers are displaced downward and appear as 2-19 only. Does anyone else see this behavior? Arno: fixed. I corrected the ShinFuseki diagrams too. Any other page? June 11, 2003:
unkx80: Seems that the domain xmp.net went down again. I wonder whether it is a good idea to bookmark the alternative URL Arno: I don't care if you bookmark it, but please don't link to it from a webpage. I plan to set up my own DNS servers - however that change may take a week or so. unkx80: Point taken, thanks. June 8, 2003: Charles Arno, thanks for the very useful change to AdvancedFindPage. What is the smart way to interchange a page title and an existing alias name? Arno: rename the alias page to a temporary name, rename the page to the original alias name, rename the alias page to the original page name. Even if the backend tells you to be careful with links etc. it should work. Charles Yes, that works, even if it feels unnatural. Thanks.
David: I've found an error in the way Sensei's Library displays diagrams containing links in text-only mode. It looks like GoWiki is doing a textual substitution in multiple passes to make the links. If 'a' is linked to "Front Page" and 'b' is linked to "Recent Changes", first all the 'a's are replaced with <a href="/?FrontPage">a</a>, then all the 'b's are replaced with <a href="/?RecentChanges">b</a>. I did a few tests and it looks like the passes are made mostly in ASCII order; '@' comes before letters and letters come in alphabetical order. An exception I found is that numbers come after letters, which is different than ASCII. The problem is that later passes change even the replacement text of earlier passes. Suppose we add a link from 'g' to "Meta Discussion" in the example above. Now after the 'a's and 'b's have been replaced, all the 'g's are replaced with <a href="/?MetaDiscussion">g</a>, even the 'g's in <a href="/?FrontPage">a</a> and <a href="/?RecentChanges">b</a>, giving <a href="/?FrontPa<a href="/?MetaDiscussion">g</a>e">a</a> and <a href="/?RecentChan<a href="/?MetaDiscussion">g</a>es">b</a>! Of course, this turns into garbage when viewed in a browser. (Imagine if 't' were linked now what damage its pass would cause. Note that the 'a' in "MetaDiscussion" is not affected because the 'a' pass happens before the 'g' pass.) This error is particularly noticeable when letters in the set [aefhr] are linked, because they affect the "a href" present in every anchor. I don't know anything about GoWiki's internals, but it might be possible to fix this problem by handling the diagram in a single pass, checking each character once to see whether it should be replaced. I first noticed this problem in the first diagram at Open in the Corner. Arno: fixed. June 6, 2003: (moved from how diagrams work by mAsterdam): Robert Pauli: I'd like to see the text diag.: to disappear. It's totally superfluous - isn't it? June 3, 2003: Charles Arno, I find it a little bit embarassing to be asking constantly for more features. But the navigation problem here doesn't go away - quite the opposite. What is on my mind right now is search on conjunction of keywords: so, right now, I'd like to search on Shape & Problem for shape problems. Another day it would be Middlegame & Joseki. At the moment the Advanced Search gives disjunction on keywords. Later: Ah, so if I search on two keywords and set the search to 'arrange by page headers', I could get something related. But that currently is by some alphabetical ordering? Can this just be tweaked in some way? Once more (but I think this is worth sharing): So a search on Shape, with the sorting by page headers, gets me some hits (Shape, Problem), but with a ragged spread, so that (Beginner, Shape, Problem) pages are somewhere else on the list. A search on Problem would be too many hits (limited to 500). June 2, 2003: mAsterdam: Hi Arno. A header with just a link doesn't render properly anymore? It did just a few days ago. (For instance the 'eye space' header at Priority. BTW1 Thanks for the keyword change. BTW2 Thanks for the goban :-) (Later) Aah, new text formatting rules. A space between the exclamation mark and the left texthook does the trick. May 28, 2003: Grauniad: What about a "software" keyword? This would describe many pages that don't fit under any other keyword. (Or has this been discussed before?) Charles: My feeling is that software isn't a concept with a direct relation to go. mAsterdam: Neither are Rules, Question?, Culture and history?, Proverb, nor Opening, Middlegame and Endgame or even Attack and defense, Tactics and Problem - they could relate to a lot (of games). I don't know how many pages relate to Software - Go-software, of course. If it helps it helps. Software as a keyword fits nicely with Book, Equipment, Clubs and Places?. Charles Of course I'm arguing otherwise: go rules are integral to go. Discussion of go software seems to me to be mainly about software. Dieter: Agree with mAsterdam. I vote for the keyword software or otherwise computer. mAsterdam: Oops. I just wanted to refute the 'direct relation' argument. In order to be in favor of a keyword software I 'ld want to know how many pages would benefit. I would not mind, though. Charles The same kind of point is mentioned below (April 23). Dieter: mAsterdam: that's why I made both statements. Charles: how can you dismiss a Software keyword when we have a Books keyword ? Charles Firstly I'm entitled to an opinion - am I not? [1] Secondly, if people discuss software in the usual terms, it's more like discussing the way a book is bound than its contents. Thirdly, could the book keyword be Books&Publications? Dieter: It would be difficult for software to compete with books in age. I don't think that's a valid argument (but I respect your opinion etcetera). There are books about Go, collections of games, problems or theoretical works. There is playing software, collections of games on disk, online problems and problem solvers, tutorial software and so on. There is so much of it and it is so easily distinguished that I think a keyword can be useful. "I want to know about all existing Go Software" looks like a valid question to me. "I want to know about all theory" is too broad and "I want to know all about rules" too narrow: a path can suffice. That's my opinion. Whether it is respectable, I leave for others to judge. mAsterdam: My keyword votes:
Grauniad: A "name" search for "program or software or database or server or client" yields 39 pages. That's not as many as I expected. But given our interest in using computers to discuss go, in using computers to play go, and in defining go precisely enough so that computers can play go, go-related software certainly seems important to SL. I agree with mAmsterdam that (go) software is as natural as (go) books and (go) equipment for describing SL pages. Arno: summing up I see that the majority would like to have "theory" and "software" keywords and do away with "Attack & Defense". I suggest that someone looks over the ~30 pages having the "Attack & Defense" keyword, before I remove it. (Done. Charles) Would it be a good idea to have "Rules & Theory" instead of "Rules" and "Theory"? Bill: Please, no. I'd rather do away with the Rules keyword than combine Rules with Theory. They are not entirely separate, as theory is based on rules. But, then again, so are Joseki, Tesuji, L&D, -- i. e., everything, since the rules define the game. For that matter, do we need a Theory keyword? Other keywords seem to cover it. Arno: I changed the keywords. If it doesn't turn out well we are still free to change them again - I assume that a wiki has to be in a permanent state of flux :o) ad [1]: removed some argument (and counter-arguments) wether another argument (and its counter-agruments) can be argued to be rude (or not). Arguing arguments is best left to email, don't you think? DougRidgway: To follow up on the May 16 comment, I think numbers larger than 10 should be available. 13 or 20 move sequences aren't particularly rare or unreadable, and may be easier to read than splitting up the diagram. Also, in presenting games, it's nice to be able to use the move numbers from the game itself, even if you're only showing two or three moves. Give authors all two digit numbers, I say, and let them decide how to use them. Charles On the other hand writing too densely is the first hurdle to get over, in becoming a go author. May 26, 2003: unkx80: When I created the What is Go page from scratch and pressed the Preview button before saving, the following error messages were displayed:
However, the preview of the page displayed fine and the page can be saved without problems. Puzzling problem, as I did not encounter this when creating other pages. Charles I see this type of message, too. Arno: fixed. May 16, 2003: BobMcGuigan: Is there any way to get numbers higher than 10 on stones in diagrams? If I am illustrating a 13 move sequence it would be nice not to have to use two diagrams.
By clicking on a diagram I can download an SGF sequence for the moves, but is it possible to go the other way around and upload an SGF file to make a diagram? Thanks.
DougRidgway: How do the back links ("Referenced by:") get made? Dieter: The page called "miai", will be referenced by this page as soon as I insert this hyperlink: miai. However, not all referring pages are shown at the left of the referenced page, only the ten (or so) most popular. David: It looks like the SGF file associated with a diagram is not updated when the "a at b" information in the title is changed, but not the diagram itself. See the second diagram at Sagari Example 2? for an example. Arno: yes, it's a known problem. I intend not to fix it right away, because the fix requires more time than you would think. As for now, the workaround is: change the diagram, save, change the diagram back to intended position. May 12, 2003: Nico: I cannot see any Chinese nor Japanese characters on my brand new Mozilla 1.4b. I only see '?' instead of the unicode character. See Japanese Go Terms for an exemple. May 8, 2003: Dieter: A bug or so it seems: when typing square brackets around a dash in the edit field, a > sign is displayed instead of the dash. E.g. Shuwa-Shusaku. Arno: ?? don't see anything but the dash. Anyone else? Dieter: From my workstation I don't have it either. From my portable I do have the >. Must have something to do with IE I guess. unkx80: (IE user) I also see only the dash. May 4, 2003: DougRidgway: Feature request: enable links (and perhaps other markup) in diagram captions. See Sandbox for a (nonworking) example. And another, if it isn't there already somehow: traffic stats, so I can see if anyone is bored enough to read my blog. Arno: I deliberately haven't enabled links and markup in captions because .. well they are captions. If you have to say something about the diagram say it in the text outside, not in the caption. Or am I seeing this too strict? Could you name two or three examples where you can't live without links in captions? DougRidgway: For the figure in my May 2 blog entry, "Igowin plays atari" is a good title. However, I'd really like to link it to the proverb BeginnersPlayAtari -- some readers may not catch the reference without a link. Other caption link examples, off the top of my head: "Position taken from Guan Zi Pu", "A Taisha variant", "Black gets a ponnuki", etc. Italics: "Taken from Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go", "The French would call this un shicho belge". Bold: "a bad move". Arno: ok, enabled links and emphasis markup in captions. May 3, 2003: Nico: Doesn't the Front Page lack and deserve a nice picture of a real-life ongoing game? Definitely more attractive. May 1, 2003: IwaHanako: When you make an edit to a page that is not allowed, the box showing the text in the case the browser has thrown away edits, has all literals ('"\) slashed. Arno: I cannot verify this. Is anyone else seeing this problem? April 25, 2003: Fhayashi: Could there be a "bookmark" link on the left to automagically put a link to the current wikipage on the left? Arno: I'll think about it. April 23, 2003: DougRidgway Two questions: 1) Is this the place for dumb questions? 2) Is there a way to make HTML tables? Some pages, eg ChineseGoTerms and TableOfNotchers seem to particularly lack their absence... unkx80: I think the answers are: 1) Yes. 2) No. Arno: no tables (and I have very strong feelings about that one: simplicity of the text markup etc. - I don't intend to reinvent HTML around here) DougRidgway: I'm all for simplicity, but some material is best organized as a table, and faking it with monospaced text can be problematic (i.e. ugly, hard to read, hard to maintain, less simple...). Perhaps the simplest way to implement would be to allow some HTML through? When I want a table, I'd be willing to write HTML to get one... And, while I'm whining, how about a Theory keyword? Arno: allowing HTML is a big "no". Parsing it for correctness and making sure that every tag is closed so that markup doesn't spill over to the rest of the page would be a pain. Furthermore, where does it stop? Before you know someone is asking for Javascript, because it is really useful to make interactive diagrams (e.g. RuleOfCapture could really use an animation instead of using 3 diagrams, don't you think? And don't forget all those problem pages). The line has to be drawn somewhere - for me tables are beyond that line. Anyone else for the Theory keyword? p.s. as for ASCII tables being
DougRidgway Thanks for listening about tables. I'll see what I can do with plain ASCII. Another question: would it be possible to allow through hex character references as well as decimal? So that 断 works as well as 断? Seems like hex is popular for character references.
Charles I don't know about a Theory keyword - too vague, too off-putting? I wondered about Study as a keyword. It might be a good principle that keywords make sense to someone with a very basic knowledge of the game. Actually that doesn't really work right now, in a few cases: but we can't really do without Joseki, Ko, or Tesuji. The keyword that I like least is Attack&Defence: I think in one way or another this is covered by Tactics, Strategy and Middle Game, and perhaps not much would be lost by distributing all its uses. DougRidgway Pages that (to me) should have a Theory keyword: Pattern Language, You cut I choose, Combinatorial Game Theory, Dieter's Ideas on Go Theory, just about everything under Speculation, etc. It would cover both technical research (provable but perhaps useless results) and philosophical musings and generalities. Arno: I have renamed the 'places' keyword to 'clubs & places'. So far we have (not counting myself) 1 pro / 1 con for the 'theory' keyword. And 1 con for 'Attack & Defense'. More opinions? Stefan: Against both as keywords. Charles explained why. Charles I don't want to come across too negative about Doug's suggestion - 3 million page views doesn't mean that SL can become middle-aged, complacent, and resistant to change in ways some people might find useful. I think what is meant is Abstract Theory. This is an attractive aspect of go to many, though that's not a reason in itself, otherwise we'd already have a Hikaru keyword. At Go Theory it talks about 'scientific go theory', but I don't see that WaveFrontAnalysis is somehow scientific while a joseki that has been played 10000 times by pros isn't.
DougRidgway: I was once a theoretical physicist, so I suppose the theoretical vs. applied dichotomy seems natural to me. Most of the material here is applied: how to play the game better, and most of the keywords rightly subdivide the different categories of application. For those few of us interested in such things, a keyword to demarcate theoretical topics and put off everyone else might actually be helpful. Otherwise, what keyword would you use for something like my purported For me, theoretical is a concept orthogonal to scientific: there's plenty of theoretical nonsense (my iterated ko taxonomy is probably an excellent example), as well as applied science (such as Charles' well-tested joseki example). April 11, 2003: Migeru: How do you revert a page to a previous version? I tried to do this for Front Page but couldn't. Dieter: Only librarians can. If they remember their password ... See levels of access. Done manually. Please revive V172 some librarian who remembers his password. Arno: everyone can revive the version of the previous author (which is enough to recover vandalism or accidents). You need to set your wiki experience level to "SL deshi" at UserPreferences. Then you will see a link below the text box when editing pages which says "Revive previously archived version". Click on that and you get the version previous to the current authors changes - i.e. the last change of the previous author. Then edit or just press save. Dieter is referring to librarians who can revive any version of a page. I.e. Dieter could have revived version 38 of FrontPage if he remembered his password :o) 2003-04-15
JanneJalkanen: Any chance for an RSS feed now that Go Teaching Ladder has one? I'm getting seriously addicted to checking all of my sites through Arno: chances are good. Should be able to add it within the next weeks. 2003-04-01 Grauniad: When you preview a page being edited with the minor edit box checked, the minor edit box becomes unchecked, so a subsequent save may be accidentally recorded as a major edit. Can the state of the the minor edit box be made to persist over successive previews? ...OK, you can set minor edit to be the default in User Preferences, but what if you haven't done this? Arno: fixed. State of MinorEdit is now preserved. 2003-03-31 I can't remember or find how to restore an archived version as a librarian. Has the feature disappeared ? --Dieter Arno: click on the pagetitle - you should see "revive" links next to the view and diff links. Btw, your username does not have to be librarian in order to have librarian status :o) There are two special fields for librarian access below the submit button. Dieter: Well, I don't see that. I used to see it. BTW, I realized my "librarian" bogus soon after. Stefan: Have you re-logged in with the librarian account? Your cookie may have expired, as per Arno's email. 2003-03-28 Charles Arno, could all the RGG FAQ pages have the keyword 'Question'? Part of my campaign to give keywords to 90% of pages here. Arno: done. Charles: Thanks. The number of unclassified pages is currently about 400. 2003-03-24 Deebster: When editing my User Preferences, I get the "Updated your preferences successfully." but I get logged out. For my money, this is to do with passwords, as I have one set but didn't enter it on the update. Everything works when entering the password. Hardly the end of the world, but could I get a message warning me that I've been logged out? Arno: fixed. You will get an error message now. 2003-03-21 Fhayashi: Could you put a Random Page link on the status bar to the left? That way, one could just keep hopping from node to node randomly. Dieter: You can add that link yourself in your preferences, I think. Arno: See footnote 5 in UserPreferences on how to do it. Fhayashi: Ah.. thank you both. 2003-03-15 Jan: What happened to HumourAlmostProverbs? Some characters show up as question marks, even in the editing box - the minus sign at least (all smilies show up as ":?)" ) Can anyone confirm (or fix) this? Jan: Some digging around in the history of page in question shows that the problem occurred during the transition from version 97 to version 98 (done by someone with an IP address of 209.107.95.230 - any takers?) I don't want to fix it right now...
2003-03-14 Charles I've also encountered some examples where the little stones mark-up causes !B0.1% (say) to be displayed wrongly, on the statistical analysis path. Arno: I fixed the search&replace algorithm. B10.0% B0.0% etc. should not be a problem any more. 2003-03-12
jsha: Arno, nice job incorporating the new markup ( Charles Thanks for pointing this out - I've fixed it now using the ! disable. (I wouldn't have seen the effect without doing a power refresh CTRL+F5.) 2003-03-12 Jan: Something completely different: due to some unknown cause (cookie expiration, ISP troubles, who knows?), my User Preferences got wiped out. Luckily I had no problems restoring them except for my dearly beloved bookmarks but along the way I noticed that the User Preferences page says (in the first footnote) that spaces are allowed, but the backend doesn't agree. I wasn't sure I could edit the User Preferences page without messing it up, so I thought I'd mention it here. Arno: fixed the info on UserPreferences. If you can edit UserPreferences then please drop me a note - you should not be able to do it. On a side note: the UserName in the left hand column is now a link to the page with the same name (i.e. your homepage). Fhayashi: yay! easy access to your homepage! Jan: Silly me! I should have looked better - of course I can't edit User Preferences :-) 2003-03-12 Bill: Do references pass through aliases? I note that, while Throw-in Ko and Yose from Games 5 Solution link to Hanami Ko, they do so through the alias, Picnic Ko, and do not show up in the 'Referenced by' column on Hanami Ko. Is that because there are already so many references (6)? Charles The backlinks to an alias can be found, but on the separate page for that alias name. So, on the hanami ko page, click where it says Picnic Ko in the left-hand bar under Aliases, and you find that there are 11 pages referencing picnic ko. Bill: Thanks for the info, Charles. :-) But who is going to do that? Arno: nobody? :o) Seriously though, I agree that the references should be shown on the main page, but with the current database design this is too resource intensive. I would need to tweak the db design. I have been thinking about this for some time now and eventually I will do it, but just don't hold your breath. 2003-03-09 FHayashi: In regards to 2/21 below, wouldn't it be nice if the Username field on the status bar to the left was a link instead of just text? David: The new little images representing moves are shown in text-only mode. I don't think this will be a problem for most text-only users, because each image's alt attribute is set, but it seems to be contradict the description of text-only mode. Arno: should be fixed now. 2003-03-08
Stefan (referring to inline images for stones): Neat feature. Is it just me (or Internet Explorer...), or do the black stones show up as little squares? Arno: I didn't understand what you mean (I'm using Mozilla), now I have checked it with IE. It seems IE's PNG support for transparency is not up to par. I'll fix it soon. (I mean the images, not IE :o) Arno: should be fixed now. 2003-02-21
Gah! I know this is a wiki and one doesn't need usernames, and all that, but at the same time, having set one up, and a homepage, and all, it would be nice to be able to, er, log into it. I tried the only way I could think of, through UserPreferences, but it tried to make a new one instead. Help? Charles Matthews Normally you can use FindPage to search for it or anything else. I've created a link above by putting the correct brackets round your name. Bill: And check the "This is just a minor edit" box when saving the changes. :-) 2003-02-04
I've noticed that when I edit a page it doesn't show up in the list of full recent changes. Is this because I don't have a homepage on SL? 2003-02-02 moved from BasicRulesOfGo Is it possible to show numbers greater than 10 in a diagram?] Dieter: No it is not. The idea has been discussed some time ago and dismissed by agreement. Of course times can be a-changing. -- RobertJasiek 2003-02-01 Dieter: Is it a)possible and b)desirable to have the following feature: when clicking on a page from RecentChanges, arrive at the start of the last edit. Currently I jump back and forth between the "diff" feature and the very page. Recent changes junkies know what I'm talking about.
unkx80: I suppose what Dieter is looking for is something like this?
DaveSigaty: Dieter, what is the difference between what you are asking for and the version "view" in Dieter: The difference is that this shows you both versions and still leaves you to figure out the modifications, while my proposal would highlight or jump to the newly added stuff. "diff" does that, but in Wiki-code and not in viewer friendly layout. It was just a thought. Thanks Arno for the answer.
Arno: unkx80's example would be nice, but hard to do with the current engine. The diff operates line based and many lines on this wiki are actually whole paragraphs. So I would have to tweak the diff engine a bit. It would be easier to have the diff and the current HTML on one page, like e.g. at the 2003-01-29 Stefan: Does the Author Search (logged in as librarian) work as it says it does for IP addresses? I checked for the footprint of our little Polish Vandal, but didn't get a match. According to RecentChanges there should be at least a second match for SandBox. Arno: it does. However it only searches current pages and not archived pages (when you searched some little cobolds already removed all traces - thus you didn't find his/her ip address anymore). Maybe it is a good idea to search for archived pages as well. Some of the pages may have been overwritten meanwhile. I put it on my todo list. 2003-01-26 There seem to be keyword problems when editing pages. I edited the Rank page and it automagically removed the "Culture and History" keyword. Luckily on a whim, I checked the diff and noticed it. I had to go back and manually put it back. Perhaps the Jan 22 bug has reverted or needs further fixing. Arno: grrrrrrr!!!!! Fixed .......... hopefully. If that ugly bug ever rears its head again I shall be publically ridiculed. I will go through the database and try to find pages that lost their keyword. The bug affected only keywords having a '&', i.e. "Attack & Defense", "Life & Death", "Culture & History". Btw, the bug does not remove keywords, it just causes the keywords no longer being preselected when editing a page. And then when you press save .... I'm unsure about some pages: can the librarians (esp. Charles) please verify the keywords on the following pages: 2002CotsenTournament, Base, BeginnerExercise102, BeginnerExercise106, CarpenterSSquare, EternalLife, EyesWinSemeais, EZGO, GoAtTheOlympics, GoodHabits, HikaruNoGo, HikaruNoGoJunkie, KeywordsPage?, KillYourselfInGote, L1Group, L2Group, LGroup, LifeAndDeathTheBook, LinkCollection, NamesInHikaruNoGo, OngoingGame, OngoingGame2, Pi, PlayingTheFirstMoveInTheUpperRightCorner, ReferencesToGo, RTGProblem4Solution, SaiSSex, SnapbackProblem18, TFG9NomadSSuggestion, TheLGroupIsDead, TooMuchThinking, TsumegoFromGames14, TsumegoFromGames2, TsumegoFromGames3, TsumegoFromGames8, TsumegoFromGames9, Uttegae Thanks. Sorry for causing this trouble. 23 January 2003
In the humour section I notice that Charles Matthews has edited two different versions of the same joke by Scartol; surely one should just be deleted?
Charles Matthews Sorry Arno - more keyword trouble. But minor this time. The keyword lists on the AdvancedFindPage don't yet have 'tournament', and this is causing some false hits. Arno: cannot verify. Did you reload the page? Try shift+reload in Netscape or ctrl+reload in IE. Tournament should be there. Charles Matthews Ah good - that fixed it. As ever, thanks Arno. 22 January 2003 Charles Matthews Has something changed in the handling of keywords, related to the new search tools? It seems there are a number of cases of page editing clearing the page keywords, unintentionally I think. Arno: oops - sorry. Happened when I added the AdvancedFindPage features. Fixed now. I will search the database for inadvertantly deleted keywords and restore them. Ok. I think I have fixed them now. About 15 pages found which needed fixing, although close to 1000 pages were modified since I added AdvancedFindPage some days ago. 16 January 2003 unkx80: There seems to be some error when I try to view the diff for the page KyrjasSite?. Charles Matthews I renamed it Protecting the cut - example 2. 14 January 2003 Grauniad: I'm not sure if this is the right page, but... given that not everyone signs the pages they create, would it be helpful if the system displayed the details of the user who created each page as well as the details of the user who last edited the page? unkx80: Yes. Click on the page title. This page has been pruned and master edited several times. Old versions:
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