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TwoStageKo

 

Two step ko Two stage ko Discussion
    Keywords: Ko

April 30, 2003

DougRidgway Looks like the toplevel pages haven't converged yet. For anyone interested in reading discussion, here's a link to the 2002 rgg thread on this topic:

[ext] http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=82caaf8f.0207311403.75c32ef1%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D82caaf8f.0207311403.75c32ef1%2540posting.google.com

14 February: Bill: Happy Valentine's Day!

I do not mind if the local dialect avoided using two step ko entirely, given the unfortunate ambiguity in prior English usage. However, the paragraph comparing unfavorable "two step kos" and "two stage kos" is poorly written, at best, if not downright misleading. I say, cut it.

11 december: Bill and Andre Engels, would it be possible to merge the pages TwoStepKo and TwoStageKo? They look awfully similar and I have the impression, that the definitions are very closely related. Wouldn't it make sense to define TwoStageKo as an alias to TwoStepKo and add the difference to that page? It also would help, if you could add an example of the type "This is a two step ko but not a two stage ko" (or the other way round) for weaker players like me who have trouble grasping the difference.

Another possibility would be to move the whole content to a page Nidan Ko and have both TwoStepKo and TwoStageKo refer to it as aliases.

--Confused

10 december: I wonder if a two stage ko (one player needs to win 2 ko depending on each other) just a variant of an approach ko or a beast of its own kind. Should two stage ko get their own page or should they just be referred to the ApproachKo page? --Confused

It's a different notion. Charles Matthews

See TwoStepKo. -- Bill

That page is awfully incorrect. What is shown there is a two stage ko. A two step ko 'is' the same as an approach move ko (with one approach move). -- Andre Engels

Bill: Cut it out, Andre. Nidan ko = 2-step ko. Ni = 2. Dan = step. It is *not* the same as a 1 move approach ko (itte yose ko). In fact, there is such a thing as a 2-step 1-move approach ko. :-)

Apparently there is a bad translation somewhere, but that is no reason to perpetuate the error. In a recent note in rec.games.go, Simon Goss recommends saying two-step iterated ko, three-step iterated ko, etc. There was some discussion about whether to talk about 2-stage kos. That seems ambiguous to me, since there are 2 stages to a 1-move approach ko. Equitable ko threats are larger in the second stage.

Charles Matthews My favoured approach now to cyclic positions taxonomy doesn't solve problems of nomenclature (yet).

I don't care what the translation of "dan" is. The English go term means what the go term is used for in English, not what the translated go term means in Japanese. -- Andre Engels

It depends how widespread the use is. I guess many of us were bred with James Davies. It is not guaranteed that future generations and other nationalities read Davies. Therefore, if translations and interpretations lead to ambiguity, we can overrule what has been common use. Dieter



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