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InvasionItinerary

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Plays against Low Chinese Opening
Path: InvasionItinerary   · Prev: 52Invasion   · Next: SanrenseiSimplestComments
  Difficulty: Dan level   Keywords: Opening, Question

[Diagram]
My usual start

Recently I often have to play against the low Chinese opening. Somehow I am always doing badly. What are good counter-strategies against this kind of opening?

Usually I play the sequence 1-4 but I'm not too happy with it as I have to invade around the marked point sooner or later which never turns out to be quite satisfactory.

-- Arno Hollosi



[Diagram]
How two 10 kyus might play

(W10 connects, Black 11 at a.) I suppose it depends on your playing style. I often find it difficult to manage my own or reduce my opponent's large territories, so I find myself often trying to play a fuseki which gives more, and smaller, groups. Therefore, I would typically play what you call the invasion instead of the extension to a on your diagram. At my level of play (10 kyu) a sequence like the one shown might follow, which leaves me as White quite happy, although in gote. If White later regains sente and is allowed to complete the lower side (e.g. b), White should be very happy. -- Morten Pahle



To Morten Pahle: I have make a comment on your reaction in Ten Kyu Nadare. However, a first remark will be that c rather than B2 is Black's normal answer in the Chinese Opening. That way the stone at W5 in Arno's diagram becomes well-positioned to make life hard for White's stones.

[Diagram]
A proposal

To Arno Hollosi:

Although I will usually play the same against the Chinese Opening, if you are not satisfied with the result you can play as in this diagram (of course both White and Black have different choices which are good). The advantage of this sequence might be that invading at the marked point here gives you slightly more room to work in than the invasion at the marked point in your diagram.

-- Andre Engels

I might add that in Go World this variation is listed as the more usual way of playing for White (I prefer it as well). For Black, I can't say I particularly like B4. Approaching the bottom left corner (forcing White to play in the area which is open at the bottom) or making a splitting play on the left side seems big. After W7, White is satisfied. -- Christian Nentwich

See Plays against low Chinese - follow-ups for White's later treatment of this area. -- Charles Matthews

However, in my experience this is not the more usual way of playing for Black. When you play W1 you have to be prepared for Black to reply at W3 instead (I have found this the more common answer on IGS). Responding by playing at B2 is a bit problematic as the stone at W3 gives Black good fighting resources here. Alternative plays at a (trying to handle the original stone lightly) and b (willing to settle in the corner if necessary) are possible. -- Dave Sigaty



[Diagram]
Lighter plays

You don't have to invade quite so deeply. I've played this combination to break up the moyo before, which I got from The Chinese Opening by Kato Masao. Alternatively if Black plays B2 at W3, you can play W3 at B2. He also suggests a reducing move like a. -- BlueWyvern

Kato also comments that answering at B2 is not so great for Black and recommends that Black plays the corner enclosure at B3. After W2, Black will fight. -- Christian Nentwich



Low Chinese, High Chinese or Sanrensei - I play the same. -- HolIgor


[Diagram]
The first question

For people who do not like playing against the Chinese Fuseki (and the Kobayashi Fuseki as well) the first question is why not play an immediate approach against Black's komoku? As soon as Black plays in the lower corner the most likely result when White plays in the upper left is some version of the Chinese. So if you don't like it, what argues against a pre-emptive strike now with W1 or a?

Why feel that playing in the remaining corner is the only choice? Consider the "Shusaku-style Fuseki". It would not exist if White had not been ready to leave the last corner empty in order to challenge Black immediately and prevent him from forming a shimari in the upper right corner. This type of aggressive play was common when White received no komi.

I prefer the idea of playing W1 instead of a in the diagram. If Black plays in the upper left around b, then the situation reverts to my own hoshi mokuhazushi strategy - how could I argue with that?


[Diagram]
A black response

If Black responds in the lower right, then both players are interested in taking sente in order to play first in the upper left. One such example is White's choice of W2 here in response to the pincer at B1. It is a common joseki that aims to ending in sente and provide support for the later invasion of the upper right side. If Black responds with one of the common patterns at B3 and B5, White's wish is fulfilled when White plays first in the upper left. There are many other choices for both players but one thing that Black certainly cannot do is to revert to the Chinese Fuseki!

-- Dave Sigaty



Path: InvasionItinerary   · Prev: 52Invasion   · Next: SanrenseiSimplestComments
This is a copy of the living page "Plays against Low Chinese Opening" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2003 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.