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Sagari

Referenced by
Descent
BasicTechniquesOfGo
BeginnerExercise5...
CanonicalForm
MessagesToPeopleC...
KanazawaSolution32
DescentExample2
TFG9WhiteDescent
PickyEndgameDiscu...
DescentExample1
TripodGroup
KanazawaSolution36
JGroups
TwoSpaceNotchersN...
SemedoriExample2
GoTerms
BlackSheepRengo2003
BigQuestionMarkPr...
KanazawaSolutionFour
ShapesRelatedToTh...

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Descent
  Difficulty: Beginner   Keywords: Shape, Go term

[Diagram]
Descent

A descent is a stretch to or towards the edge of the board. W1 is a descent.


[Diagram]
Another descent

So is B1 in this diagram.



Descent is often a useful tesuji and makes good shape. It may for example gain important liberties.

Examples

Comments on the term sagari

John F. I'd like to make a general comment sparked off not by this page but by the one on [Sagari Tesuji] (now descent tesuji), though it seems to belong here as this is the definition page.

Terminological inexactitudes abound on SL. Sometimes they give rise to useful discussion. Most often they don't but stay there to mislead future readers.

Problems can arise whatever the language of the term, but it seems to me that the main problem arises when someone posts a Japanese term. This is a special problem because so many terms of Japanese origin are now used by western players as quasi-English terms, but either with different meanings from Japanese (e.g. yose, fuseki) or with a different range of coverage, e.g. hane ... and sagari.

The example shown in Sagari Tesuji is not usually called sagari in Japan. It would most often be called orikiri, sometimes sagarikiri (oru is another way of saying sagaru). Indeed, the usual Japanese definition is telling: it is a nobi towards the edge. This tells us several things. One is that it is really a mistake to call a nobi a push, as some people do, but also that what is in the Japanese mind is a space for a stretch, i.e. ordinary sagari does not usually get used for a move onto the first line. This is where the -kiri comes in: end, limit.

Rest of discussion moved to Japlish.

HolIgor: I've checked with the Japanese books I have.

Cho Chikun:

[Diagram]
Sagari 1 is the critical point



Ishida Yoshio:

[Diagram]
Kuro wa 1 to sagaru

Sagari is a term that I learned here in SL. I've learned to read a little bit Japanese afterwards. And the Japanese terms I met here were useful because they are easily recognizable.

Now, what is a descent?


[Diagram]
Descent?

A slide is also a descent.



Charles Well, no. A descent is like going down in a lift (elevator). A slide is an extension down to the second line. I'm fairly neutral on the question of misuse of Japanese terms when there isn't a major conceptual point. Anyone can still use sagari. But I regard the English terms as the default, in cases where there is an adequate translation.



This is a copy of the living page "Descent" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2003 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.