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Ask the Stronger Player for a Game
Path: GoodHabits · Prev: · Next: Nigiri If a weaker player wants to play a game against a stronger one, he should simply ask for one and not wait until the stronger one makes the first step. Any opinions ? -- Dieter Verhofstadt My opinion is, that this holds in general, not just for weaker players. -- Andre Engels Yes, I would say that it is in general a good habit to ask for games rather than to linger around - whether your opponent is stronger or weaker than you. (And sometimes you don't know in advance :-) -- Morten Pahle I find it awkward. I'm about 15k, at least, that's what I'm entered for a tournament next week at. My club has no one around my level - I don't have a problem asking the 9k players for a game, or offering one to the beginners, but people above maybe 5k, I don't want to _bore_ them. So I'm embarrassed to ask them for a game. -- Jenny Radcliffe ;) Charles Matthews I think etiquette permits anyone in a club to ask anyone else for a game. I think it also says that if the disparity in level is large, the weaker player should play quite quickly - it is clear that problems may occur for Black that seem harder than usual to solve at the board, and that Black should accept this rather than take a long time. Resign when a long way behind - this applies to everyone, really. Handicap games are a form of 'sparring', and should be played in good spirit on both sides - an obligation by no means restricted to the weaker player. Jasonred Well, challenging someone stronger than you is often the best way to go cause: a) You don't always get to play people around the same strength, which is a pity, IMHO. b) Challenging a WEAKER player sometimes makes you feel bad... like, bullying or something. What's the diplomatic way of offering a handicap anyhow? Since I'm a MUCH lower (higher?) kyu, you should take 5 stones? SHOULD you, in fact, be playing with someone who has that large a strength gap? Worse, won't you find it boring? Cause, since YOU made the challenge, you can't really ask your opponent to play quicker, don't think so long, etc etc, right? And don't you feel bad if you challenge someone, KNOWING he's weaker than you, and then forcing him to resign after 20 stones? As for the whole wasting a stronger players time, or boring him, yeah, I gotta go with the 'play quickly' idea. If the disparity is too large, play 10 second go, at least it'll be painless (for your opponent!) I'm always at a loss on how fast to play a teaching game. If I'm the stronger player, I don't want to rush the beginner into making mistakes. However, I don't want to play only one game (for three hours) for the entire night, countering hopeless invasions and the like. On the other hand, I don't think I would learn from a teaching game if I didn't try to read the situations out. If I play ten-second go, I would miss some of the things I would be able to read out normally. For post-game analysis, they would end up pointing out mistakes that I might see, given enough time to think... Does anyone have any opinion about the speed of the game? Does a guideline of one minute per move maximum sound about right? Perhaps the stronger player might ask to speed up the game or give hints, like "that invasion probably won't live," without sounding too rude. I don't think that this should keep anyone from asking for a game, however. Tristan Jones It seems to me that handicap stones fulfil two separate purposes: the first is to make a competitive game possible for players of disparate strengths; the second is to help the weaker player develop his skills (the hoshi points encourage him to attack, to play for influence, etc.). I don't think it matters too much who asks whom for a game, but perhaps it should be clear from the outset whether the game is intended as a contest (thereby equalised by the handicap) or as a lesson. If the game is to be a contest, then it is probably better to wait until the weaker play asks for advice before you give it, but if the game is to be a lesson, then mistakes should be pointed out straightaway to help the weaker play deal with them promptly. If the stronger player is behind in a teaching game, and feels the need to try for a "rip-off" in order to catch up, then I would argue that they should tell their pupil what they are attempting, lest the pupil come away with the damaging impression that the rip-off sequence was in fact good, honte play. In the end, it all depends on the priorities agreed upon for the type of game you are playing: are you playing to win? Or to teach? Or to learn? Jasonred- yeah , ten seconds is a little extreme. I'd guess that the bigger the strength disparity, the faster a game should go. AND, most importantly, in those cases, the weaker opponent should be given a chance to take back his moves if they're really bad. YES, I know it's a terrible habit to instil into newbies (or anyone), but really, there's no other way to avoid the weaker player scratching his head wondering how to get out of a situation. I'd say setting a quick limit on his thinking time, then advising him on better possibilities, is better than just telling him what to do. I think it's better to let them try something, then correct it, than just tell them the answer right off. Or to let them do something and NOT correct them. Tristan, I dunno. When I play to win, I'm usually doing it for the challenge. And thus prefer playing players my own strength. At higher strength differences, it's all shidougo, or just one person massacring the other. Or sometimes a sort of "quirky" game where the weaker opponent sticks a ridiculous number of stones on the board... Charles Matthews Well, I'd disagree with much of that. There are reasons to think; what isn't good is even-paced slow play, or just spending a long time looking at stuff that doesn't work. I certainly don't think that Black in a handicap game should be hassled - just that the game should be over in about an hour, to allow for some friendly discussion. Path: GoodHabits · Prev: · Next: Nigiri This is a copy of the living page "Ask the Stronger Player for a Game" at Sensei's Library. ![]() |