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Black Sheep Rengo 2003
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PageType: OngoingGame    

(since 2003 is the year of the sheep in Japan, China, etc. :-)

Make your move in the SL Black Sheep Rengo 2003!

Make your play on main board and circle it (unmarking the previous play). Also, make your play on the numbered board, and leave a brief note identifying yourself and your play. Every 10 moves we have to start a new numbered board.

For how it's done, see Ongoing Game. Enjoy!

[Diagram]
Diag.: Black Sheep Rengo 2003

[Diagram]
Diag.: Captured stones and komi (6.5)


[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 71 - 80

DJ W74: Wow! Things are getting serious! Nobody says anything, I just perceive fighting spirits and killing gazes everywhere...
I'll say only this: finally an easy move for me to play!

Dave: I wasn't being too serious. I just couldn't find a comment that wasn't a big hint to my team mates about what I thought the next play should be. Unfortunately I think that the 73/74 exchange creates some serious damezumari problems for us black sheepers (hint, hint :-). I was hoping for the direct cut at "a" instead. Since the cut is still an important issue we can leave it for now but perhaps come back later to analyze how it would have gone.

dnerra B73.

Charles White 72.

Black 71: DaveSigaty


[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 61-70

White 70: Migeru This also looks mandatory. My first impulse was to cut, but I think that doesn't work.

Black 69: dnerra This hane looks mandatory.

White 68: Charles Happy with this exchange.

B 67: DaveSigaty: Let's just wander over and see whose aji is worse around here...

W 66: HolIgor: Rengo should be switchy, shouldn't it?

BSR 2003 W66 Discussion



B 65: dnerra: Hane on the other side seems to fail, so we have to try this one.

White 64: Charles Matthews White has sente, unexpectedly. Let's see if Black can defend as well as make bullying plays!

B 63: exswoo: Necessary?

W 62: HolIgor: White takes the ko and lives.

B 61: Dieter: Giving in after increasing the ko may be a loss, but I felt that the exchange of 58 for 59 is a loss for White and any ko threats I could come up with where either too small, too small in number or too vague. Sorry if I have spoilt the fun of playing ko.

Charles Matthews I assumed that Black had four or five good threats, starting with a. I agree about White 58 - I didn't like it, even though it was played by someone stronger than me.

dnerra: I don't understand why you dislike White 58. Surely White has to play a local ko threat, and at least White 58 keeps the option of the follow-up at b open (leading to one of the variations discussed on BSR2003 B51 Discussion). White c, while it looks like better shape, actually destroys this possibility.

Charles Matthews White 58 and then White b looks like a clear mistake in order of play. More on the discussion page. One major issue: should White play threats that decrease in size, or increase in size? I think in this case the latter is better.


[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 51-60

Charles Matthews White 60. Retakes ko.

unkx80: Black 59. It looks to me that this ko threat has to be answered.

Lucky: White 58. White should play local kodate.

unkx80: Black 57.

Charles Matthews White 56. I thought this was automatic, but I guess I play it to keep things moving ahead.

HolIgor: White could increase the value of the ko by playing a. Strong players are very reluctant to increase the value of ko. That is something that weaker players have to keep in mind. (Discussion.)

HolIgor: Isn't it time for White to decide if she wants to increase the value of the ko even further?

exswoo: B55. Well, a sagari seems like as good a move as any.

HolIgor: This is called increasing the value of the ko. It is a very dangerous thing. Let's see how it turns out.

HolIgor: W54. I think that White has to break through I'd like to do it with ko. This is the point when the moves have to be precise. If Dave played a hamete with 51 then it will be instructive for the kyu players if the dans would explain what is happening and what move is the best.

unkx80: BSR2003 B51 Discussion.

Charles It is indeed a good example of the need to think about timing.

unkx80: Black 53. Uh oh... I think 51 is a mistake.

Dave Won't be the first time! :-)

Charles Matthews White 52. This.

DaveSigaty: Black 51 Just for fun, let's see what White will do...


[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 41-50

HolIgor: White 50. Surely, Black's moyo looks scary, but if White makes a reduction move on the right Black would probably extend on the left.

Self-made rule: shoulder hit against the third line, a threat to go underneath against the fourth line.

dnerra: Black 49.

Charles Matthews White 48 really is a vital point for shape; White 46 is just for territory - I agree with HolIgor about that. This is in fact a classic case where hane at the head of two would wreck White's shape: if Black plays at 48 White loses both influence in the centre and points on the edge in the endgame. Since White is now strong to the left, this mattered more at 46 than taking territory.

exswoo: Black 47. I was considering a instead but it seemed a bit risky in a side where White has so much influence. The left side also looked promising but I figured that the potential cut at b would minimize White's move in that area.

It also leaves open the possibility of an additional extension on the right side later if White doesn't play there.

Migeru: White 46. I think this is better than extending after Black 45.

HolIgor: I disagree. We are talking about the fundamentals here. A move on either the left or the right side would have two purposes: extend one's own potential territory and limit the opponent's expansion, while the move at the top is just building White's own territory. This move helps the two white stones at the top a litle bit but since it creates no pressure on Black it is not the largest move on the board. What do the dan players think?
dnerra: To add a little to Charles' comments above: It's really not so much about dual- or single purpose move. It's about horrible shape for white if black hanes at W48 with B47. Black might get the double hane plus the hane at c in sente. Then white has "gained" some 20 points where she had already likely territory, whereas Black gained strength in the center and increased the size of his corner.

unkx80: Black 45. For about five days nobody made a move, I'll just make one to keep the game going.

Charles Matthews White 44. A chance to fight back. I think Black 41 should just extend.

dnerra: Aha, now that you say this I have to agree.

unkx80: Black 43, atari. I hope this isn't an overplay. =)

HolIgor: W42. There is an option of sagari here too. It is difficult to choose. Feel free to criticize.

unkx80: Pro players will tell me that direct capture is better than the sagari, because the sagari invites the block in sente.

dnerra: B41.



[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 31 - 40

Charles White 40.

unkx80: Black 39.

DJ White 38: Ah, hum! Easy...
May I nevertheless venture to say that perhaps W36 should have been where B37 now is? Now the Black stones in this corner get in harmony with the ones in the center... IMVVHO White should have kept them separated with the classical TsukeNobi Joseki. Charles I agree. Come on, White Wolves. The Black Sheep seem to be out-gunning us.

Dave: B37. I'll play the obvious and leave it to someone else to think later.

Migeru: W36

dnerra: B35.

Charles Matthews White 34: I'll play again, to keep the game interesting.

DaveSigaty: Black 33

Charles Matthews White 32.

unkx80: Black 31.



[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 21 - 30

DJ White 30: A rengo is a rengo is a rengo.
I'd like Black to appear as an artist of the floating world...

dnerra: Black 29.

Charles Matthews White 28.

DaveSigaty: Black 27. After the exchange of 25 for 26, 27 aims at making it difficult for White to get enough out of the right side to balance Black's upper and lower corner. If White becomes strong in the upper right, I think that White 26 will begin to look like kikasare.

exswoo:Is Black taking this corner a better move than the lower left? Or are they about equal? I was looking at the board for some time and each corner seems to have its own advantages. The lower left corner seems to work in conjuction with the other black stones well but allowing White to take the upper right seems to give White a very strong position.
Dave: I think that Black has good potential in the bottom left if he plays first there. On the other hand, Black also has interesting potential there if White plays first :-) By interesting, I mean that Black can look forward to using his center stones effectively to limit what White can achieve. If we look at the right side from a similar point of view, I think it is interesting for Black to try to prevent White from getting full value from her center stones. Since the center was mapped out early in this game, a lot depends on whether or not the investment in the center pays off. Black has started off taking territory in the corners. If White can not compensate for this with equal terrirtory on the sides and in the center, she will fall behind. White is going to have a tough time on the left and along the top due to the orientation of Black's center stones and the remaining aji in the Black stone in the upper left. Meanwhile Black 25 is also a solid base from which to fight for an equal or better share of the bottom. At present, I think that Black's overall position is very interesting. I think that Black 25 was an excellent idea - probably White 24 needed to be the high move at d to prevent this.

exswoo:I figured that the extra stones in the middle will make the move at b seem a bit slow...

I would have played at c for exactly the same reason. - Migeru
I don't know what the others think, but I'd suggest you pick a side, exswoo. About the move, I'd think both W26 and c are fine (whereas b is not), what do others think?--dnerra

I think corners are big. Why keep playing in a relatively strong area? Charles

exswoo Sorry, I didn't know that anyone felt that way about me playing moves on both sides. I just figured that this would keep the game moving at a brisk pace since the rengo games seem to take months to play out. I'll stick with Black from now on then, since I was responsible for the mess up on the upper left.
dnerra: No need to apologize! I just think it's more fun this way. Welcome among the black sheep, then :)

dnerra: Black 25. Black has to be patient now. There will come opportunities to catch up....

Migeru: White 24: I hope it's OK for another double-digit kyu to join at this point. I am thinking it's time for tenuki. I was considering playing on one of the free 4-4 points, but I don't want to allow Black to play a shimari.

unkx80: Black 23. The corner is alive but...

exswoo Just to keep the game moving...I give you Black 21 and White 22. I think Black 23 is decided as well...I wonder if my overplay at Black 15 could turn out to be any useful?



DaveSigaty: Shouldn't Black cut at a once White chooses White 20?
exswoo: I didn't consider that move when I played 21 but...wouldn't the end result strengthen White even more? Of course, I know you have better judgement on these matters than I do, but I'm not too convinced about this one.

I'm guessing something like this would result...and White will play somewhere afterwards to either protect the cut( somewhere around c?) or make a base...right?

Then again, White has sente after the sequence up to Black 23 anyway. Eh, I'm sure someone else will come by and rip my reasoning apart :P

[Diagram]
Diag.: If the cut at 'a'...

Charles White 20 (rather than a hanging connection) deviates from any known pattern or joseki, but clearly central influence in this game invalidates joseki anyway. It leaves a position in which Black's corner is alive. On the other hand it does more against the cutting stone.

I think Dave's suggestion of the immediate cut is one good way to play. White might end up connecting solidly with White 8 now at b here so as to leave no forcing moves at all. Orthodox is the keima connection at d, but my feeling is that White might soon regret leaving the cut at b, for tactical reasons.

dnerra: My assumption was always that the keima connection is only good if White has two ladders to choose from after Black cuts. Here in this situation, there would remain kikashis around e, as well as squeeze possiblities by cutting at b followed up with f.


[Diagram]
Diag.: Joseki.

unkx80: If I am not wrong the joseki goes like this.



[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 11 - 20

Charles White 20. Light play - perhaps.

dnerra: Black 19.

exswoo:I took a look at Black 15 again and I think it was an overplay after all. Oh well :) At least Black 17 and White 18 are decided now. I was tempted to play out B19 while at it but I figured I should leave it alone just in case someone wants to makes it very complicated :D

dnerra: Yes, the problem is that we have to live in our corner first, so that we can't make use of the cutting stone. Also, life in the corner will be smaller and in gote.

DaveSigaty: White 16. The obvious reply? :-)

exswoo: Black 15:The obvious answer?

dnerra: No.

HolIgor: White 14. I have never played this. Let's try it.

unkx80 Black 13: Oh well, let's continue. =)

Lucky White 12: I have to agree, Black 11 is not very inspired, much too greedy. Black will gain at most 10 points in the corner - White will make a wall. The black stones in the middle are starting start to look a little like a weak group instead of thickness. Normally it is bad to invade under hoshi too soon, this game is no exception. Anyway, it is not yet finished.

DJ Dear stronger friends, I have a question: I was considering which side to block from for White 12, and after some thinking and much more personal feeling, I decided that blocking from the other direction (what is now Black 13) could have been the right guess (for instance because White's influence would develop down the left side, contrasting with Black's...).
Now I see that Lucky himself chose the other direction: may I ask to be enlightened on the reasons for this?
Lucky In this specific position, I can't say which direction is definitely better. The usual wisdom says to block on the bigger side. It seems to me that the left side is more important than the upper side. The central groups split more or less their influence toward the upper side: neither can make many points there. The left side was Black's zone; if White can make a solid position on the left side then she's happy.
DJ I see. Thanks a lot!
dnerra I also found it hard to decide on which side to block; I too, DJ, would have chosen the other side. My reasons was exactly that Black was stronger on the left side. The stones on the third line that White would get at b after the usual joseki seemed sufficient to nullify Black's influence, while White's wall can still do something at the top. Let's say it the other way round. After the joseki Lucky intended to choose, the left side is more important (just looking at the corner stones) than the top side. That is exactly where Black is already standing.
Lucky, what do you think?
Lucky BSR2003 Move12
unkx80: To me both sides seem the same too.
DaveSigaty: To me it is an interesting question whether White should tenuki here and play on the right. Then the situation becomes that Black built the center thickness and followed up with a low play at 3-3. In response, White has played at 4-4, a (perhaps) natural move to cut the relationship between Black's center and corner. Black's upper left corner will end up being larger than when White plays first but overall is White better or worse?

exswoo Black 11:I get a feeling that I'm doing this too early, but the idea is that the stones near tengen will minimize the large wall that White will get on the outside...

exswoo, Wasn't it you to play White 4? How come now you're playing for Black? Don't you like our company? (DJ)

exswoo: I'm just checking back a couple times a day and playing the next move :D

HolIgor: Shitsurei shimashu. (I am going to be rude).

I think that this point has to be discussed. Black has found the tightest point on the board to make territory. This cannot be the correct approach. The usual kakari in such cases sacrifices a stone for the benefit of the exit to the centre.

Such greed is characteristic of kyu-level players. When for a period I played san-san regularly, I was amazed that in many cases my opponents insisted on getting territory under it. The next diagram shows how to achieve this.


[Diagram]
Diag.: How to get territory under san-san (joke)

I am IGS 1k only and my word has no authority to it. Would stronger players comment on the move in the game, please?


Arno, 1 dan: I have to agree with HolIgor. Black 11 is a bad move. Black has built up some influence in the center, so he should use it wisely. Exswoo is right that if White builds a wall (naturally after the 3-3 invasion) it will cancel out with Black's influence. But the point is that Black is also losing his influence which is much worse than White losing hers.

The only points worth playing are either approach moves to the corner (kakari) - I'd prefer the two-point kakari on the fourth line - or ignore the part for the time being and occupy the lower left corner. The lower left corner is a very good point for Black: if White approaches, Black plays a high pincer and uses his center influence naturally. If she doesn't approach, then Black approaches the upper white corner, again putting his center influence to optimal use.

Black 11 destroys the "spirit" of the game so far.

exswoo: Ah, I see what you're saying. I didn't think of the move as in terms of Black losing influence as well, just that the end result for White won't be very good. Should White play out the local sequence here or tenuki for now?

unkx80: I agree with Arno and HolIgor. Firstly, the timing is wrong as there are still open corners and other big points like the sides. Secondly, the point to approach the upper left corner is wrong, it should not be san-san. I believe a better way for Black to approach the upper left corner is a.


[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 1 - 10

Lucky: White 10. Isn't it a nice point?

exswoo: Black 9: To return the favor in kind :)

Skelley White 8, the only move!

dnerra: Black 7: Who said this is an aggressive game?

Lucky: I didn't have the nerve to cross-cut.

unkx80: I shall be part of the black sheep team again. =)

dnerra: I was tempted by BSR2003B5Alternative here.

exswoo:White is going to play very aggressively. Charles I have problems with White 4 as played - White can only lose.

dnerra: Black 3. Now Black dominates two-thirds of the board, doesn't he? 8)

AvatarDJFlux White 2: Ah!
Fighting spirit compels the White team to strike back, while at the same time honouring the established tradition (see a certain historical game...)

DaveSigaty: Black 1. After all the talk on why don't we open at tengen... :-)



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This is a copy of the living page "Black Sheep Rengo 2003" at Sensei's Library.
(OC) 2003 the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.