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Game33
PageType: OngoingGame    

Three-stone free placement handicap for Black versus 35.5 Komi for White

The game below resulted from the discussions about teaching game 53 where Black is receiving a large reverse komi in addition to two handicap stones. Enjoy!

Dave: ...I don't really know what is the best way to "plan" playing with or against a 50 point komi. Granted in this case it is to compensate for a significant difference in strength but it is still interesting to consider how W (and B) should approach the problem. It would be interesting to play a game against an opponent of equal strength with for example a 35(?) point komi in exchange for 3 handicap stones.
Bill: How about it, Dave? If you give me 3 stones, free placement, I'll give you 35.5 komi. :-)

Dave: 35.5 seems fine for the first try. More generally, what is the procedure to bid between two players to decide komi? I remember reading a discussion of it on rgg but can't remember how it should work.

Bill: There are a few schemes. I like sealed bids. High bid wins and takes Black. If the bids are the same, use nigiri or flip a coin. Komi is the average of the two bids, rounded up to the nearest 1/2. If the bids are different, each player gets a subjective advantage. :-)
One scheme I have never heard of, but should work pretty well is for one player to set the komi and the other player to then choose whether to play Black or White.

SAS: This last system is (or at least was) used in Japan's Strongest Amateur tournament. See [ext] http://gobase.org/games/davies/94/94may.html .

Latest Move Marked

[Diagram]
Diag.: 3 stones vs. 35.5 komi


[Diagram]
Diag.: 41 - 50

Dave: W41: So much for the corner!

[Diagram]
Diag.: 31 - 40

Dave: W31: I think that there is enough aji left on the lower side to justify this as a dual-purpose move. If W can't effectively reduce the bottom after this, then it is probably too small at this point.

Bill: B 32: Another stolid, questionable play. ;-)

Dave: W33: The last tidying up before the fighting begins?

Bill: B 34: Aye, aye, sir!

Bill: B 36: A kikashi before dying. ;-)

Dave: W 37: Win or lose, answering 36 seems unbearable. But at the same time, I can't actually tell whether 36 is an effective kikashi or not if I do answer. The bottom is too complicated and I can't read out what would follow. Therefore I follow the age-old amateur proverb, "When in doubt, tenuki!" :-)

Bill: B 38: Do or die! (Maybe both, eh? ;-))

Dave: W 39: We will just have to see where this takes us! Was the analysis for 37 Katteyomi?

Bill: B 40: That's my kind of yomi. ;-)
"Who knows where the road will lead us? Only a fool would say." -- Brenda Lee
BTW, you have been making all the new board diagrams. I made the next one. :-)

[Diagram]
Diag.: 21 - 30

Dave W 21: Expanding the top

Bill: B 22: Aye, aye, sir!

Dave W 23: Action - reaction

Bill: B 24: The flow of the stones.

Dave: W 25: Trying to limit B's center potential while strengthening W's weak stones.

Bill: B 26: Still flowing.

Dave: W 27: I think the honte was 'a' but I couldn't bring myself to play it :-)

Bill: B 28: "One space jump -- never bad." I hope. ;-)

Dave: W29: Strengthening the left.

Bill: B 30: High time, I think. :-)

JamesA: Permit the intrusion of a much lower ranked player but isn't B30 a bad move? It doesn't really attack the white's left side group and doesn't secure territory. Also, black is very strong on the bottom side. Isn't the top left more urgent? (or the bottom right bigger?)

Dave I don't know whether B30 is a bad move or not. However, I do not think that you can say that the bottom side is strong at this point. The marked W stone still has a lot of aji. It is well positioned to support an invasion at "c". If B plays on the upper side and W manages to play first on the lower, I was considering to pull the stone out at "b". Depending on B's answer, I thought that I could either live/escape with those two stones or effortlessly invade the corner at "c". I think that it is fairly urgent for B to follow up on the bottom. I hope that JamesA is correct that B30 doesn't really attack the left - otherwise I must have wasted a move at W29 :-)
Bill: "I don't know whether B30 is a bad move or not." Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence, Dave. ;-) (Dave: Well I also don't know whether W29 was a bad move. I seriously considered playing 29 at 30 but settled on 29 in the end. Afterwards we can weigh the merits of this exchange!) (Bill: I like W 29. :-) It solidifies the center, aiming at both top and bottom.)
W 29 made B 30 fairly urgent, I thought. Before that play I welcomed movement from the marked White stone. I expected to run it out into the center, where I could make use of my tengen stone. In addition, the fight would weaken White's position on the left. W 29 strengthened that position, and White's stones one the right are solid, so that fight did not look to gain me much in exchange for my potential on the bottom and middle. Also, as Dave points out, Black's bottom position is not really strong. Take away the marked stones, and that is obvious. The exchange has strengthened Black a bit, but not too much. ;-)
In addition, B 30 is on the frontier between moyos, enlarging Black's and reducing White's potential expansion.
B d may have been better. It would have been better if it were sente, but Black is too thin and White is too thick for that.
Later thoughts: B a looks like sente. Maybe better to play there first.

[Diagram]
Diag.: 11 - 20

Dave W 11: Heh, it's a handicap game so why not the traditional handicap-game joseki!?

Bill: B 12: I thought about 13 to make use of my stone on the bottom side. But on reflection I'll head towards tengen. ;-)
If now W a (13), B b (14), and then if W c (15), B d (16), per joseki. :-)

Dave W 13 - W 17: Just following orders!

Bill: B 18: Aye, aye, sir! ;-)

Dave: W 19, I thought 'a' would be too aggressive with the diagonal B wall stretching up to tengen waiting for me.

Bill: Another nice play, Dave! B 20: Stolid play?


[Diagram]
Diag.: (1 - 10)

Bill Spight: I've been kibitzing a lot lately. Now you can see how badly I really play. ;-)

Dave, if you start in one open corner, I'll take the hoshi in the opposite corner. Onegai shimasu. <bow>

Dave Onegai shimasu. As you so kindly reminded me, the open corners are miai :-)

Bill: I thought about a, but maybe 2 makes better use of the tengen stone.

Dave: With 2 the lower right seems to become more urgent than the upper left.

Bill: You're a smart man, Dave. :-) If you weren't so smart I'd try 6, but I am afraid that you'd tenuki. ;-)

Hmmm. It looks like I missed a trick. :-(


[Diagram]
Diag.: Easier fuseki for Black

If I play B 1 instead 3, if now White plays in the other corner, B 3 works better than in the game, coordinating with both B 1 and the tengen stone. If W 2 makes a double kakari, I think I can manage to take sente and play in the other corner.
Who came up with that nonsense about no plan in the opening?


Dave: Hmmm... Yes, this order seems more interesting for B. I might choose to play 'a' instead of 2 in order to blunt B's momentum along the left side. But it will still be more difficult to tenuki after 3 than in the game. On the other hand, if I answer 3 then 'b' becomes an awfully good looking point for B.


Dave W 5: I'll take the midpoint on the left, hoping that it will limit the effect of what you can do to W 1. I also considered the alternative of playing at the top and letting you take the left. This seemed to make it more urgent to continue with the lower left. With the B stone on tengen, I am hoping to avoid any really urgent fight as long as possible (rightly or wrongly :-)

Bill: Interesting play, Dave. :-)
B 6: "The time has come, the Walrus said."

Dave W 7: Following 5 my theory is that I should be able to tenuki on the lower left, spending some of my komi to break up potential B frameworks.

Bill: Another excellent play, Dave. :-)
B 8: Tenuki this! ;-)

Dave W 9: Sooner or later B's handicap starts to exert its force. I first planned to answer 8 with a play at 'b' but was afraid of what would happen if B in turn answered at 'c'.

Bill: B 10, hane. If you play osae at d, I play atari at e.

I am not sure if W 7 was the right idea or not. Dave

[Diagram]
Diag.: A different W 7

If W takes the right side and B takes the top then the approach move at 3 expands W's side while limiting B's top. This way W has superior influence in at least one part of the board. In the game, W's stones are more scattered and it will be a delicate problem to avoid being attacked too strongly.

Bill: Maybe so, but allowing the sanrensei is easy on Black, and it works with the tengen stone. I still think W 7 is good. :-)



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