[Welcome to Sensei's Library!]

StartingPoints
ReferenceSection
About


Referenced by
TeachingGame67
TeachingGame67Mov...
TeachingGame67Mov...

 

Teaching Game 67 Moves 21 Thru 30
PageType: OngoingGame    

This is a Teaching Game so please add generous comments. Anyone can a question or kibitz. It makes for a good learning experience (and nice reading material for others). Hopefully we see some dan level player with their kibitzes here as well


[Diagram]
Diag.: Latest move marked

[Diagram]
Diag.: Captured stones and komi

JoeSeki I hope a high Dan player will make some comments about our direction of play when it's appropriate. I'd hate to think this is a case of "The blind leading the blind"

dnerra: Hmm, I am not sure about the result after black enters at the square-marked stone instead of B29. If white presses with the usual knight jump, and black chooses the usual joseki, we have a white wall facing black thickness. But white is first to get an extension, so this favors white a little.

On the other hand, black is really thick, while the white wall does have some weaknesses, so this is a plus for black. Then there is the right side. Black is in danger of getting pressed further, which is probably bad in relation to his shimari in the upper side. So white will get sente at the top, or get compensation on the right side. It looks playable for both. Someone else to comment? (Yes I know, I should add a diagram here, maybe I can do that tomorrow.)

JamesA: Really interesting game! B29 is a difficult move to decide upon. How about playing 1 below, to extend from the top right shimari. Then, if white makes a shimari in the bottom right black gets a fantastic move at 'm' - preventing white's extension and also creating a double wing enclosure.


[Diagram]
Diag.: Alternative for B29

However, looking at this position I think black may have a difficult game (white has sente), so 3-3 may be the way to go (black gets territory and white's thickness isn't too valuable because of black's opposing thickness). The problem is that white has quite a bit of territory already and his stone on 3-5 in the bottom left makes it difficult for black to get compensation with his thickness. I'm worried about the territorial balance for black after W28.

After the actual B29 and the following joseki it is very hard to find a good move for B35.


[Diagram]
Diag.: Moves 21-30

JoeSeki W30 nothing else even looks good. I'll take the profit. I think if I had black I would have played at the 3-3 point and take the profit away from white. Any outside influence white gets won't be that beneficial I think.

DJ B 29: Ouff!!! I agonised a lot on this move...
I considered all left big points left (Oba) at j, k, m: I had really a hard time to make my mind up. For some reason I thought the LS uninteresting, and no good entering at x (White 30) just to be pressed at 29 (but maybe I am wrong in thinking this??!?).
So this is my move!
If I'll have time I'll create a page to explain in detail my reasoning for lurker's sake...

JoeSeki W28: I choose the small enclosure on the top side. I decide that with the forcing move of Black at 'a', Wb, that would be black influenced area. So I return the headache to you. :)

AvatarDJFlux: If we give each other a headache it means that the game is difficult for both: excellent! Leaving jokes aside, I perceive this fuseki as really challenging. A difficult fuseki is for me one of the most beautiful elements of Go.
Now it's my turn to ponder. I will try to play moves that flow naturally. At least, that's my intention...



[Diagram]
Diag.:

JoeSeki I considered this sequence thinking my stone in the lower right corner being on the 3-5 point might have a good relationship with my stones crawling out. Not only would I get out into the middle but I don't think the thickness you get wouldn't be worthwhile. But after thinking about it a bit longer I decided I'd rather not strengthen you this way on the lower side. If you want to stop me from getting out into the middle you'll have to take gote again anyway. So I believe (probably incorrectly ;) that the middle will be unimportant in this game, so by not giving you more thickness by forcing my way out with crude moves, I should be able to handle the lower side better. Thus, you were very insightful to play for me as you did. It is as I would have played. Thank you.

unkx80: Don't mind if I ask, why is there two move number 4s in your diagram?
DJ: Whoa! Two moves in a row!! That's not fair!!! :-)))
JoeSeki Whoops poor editing my part. I fixed the diagram so it makes sense. Now our comments here won't though.

I am back from Holiday and had a great time. I went to a gaming convention, and bought some new games to play with friends. Taught someone how to play go, and hopefully hooked them on it :) I had no time to think about my next move though. I was thinking about the sequence below and hadn't gotten around to the move I should make once I had sente.

Hmm, where is the important point to play? The top is 12 lines of separation between a black group on the 5th line and a white stone on the 4th line. Wide and tall. The right is 11 lines between a black stone on the 3rd line and a white stone on the 5th line. The left side is betwen a white stone on the 3rd line, and something 7 spaces away. But I don't know what that will be in the middle game. Is that blackness down there or whiteness? trying to fight my way out would make it blackness.

I think the top is the biggest area. But what kind of shimari? 4th line? I don't thik so, A high stone is not called for here I believe. So 3rd line. Small or large knight shimari? Small allows me to extend a nice 2 spaces should you extend along the top. But then again the right side seems bigger then the top after my shimari. So a large night allows me to extend 2 spaces along the top even further, making any extension by on the top akward.

On the other hand, if I start to enclose both of my corners you get a double wing formation working for you. That can't be good. Tough, very tough. Or is that wrong thinking? I'd have 3 corners and could cap both extension (or invade under them if on the 4th line). I should be able to reduce such a double wing formation. Right? I think this is a turning point for white. I'll get you a move by tomorrow. I hope my rambling wasn't too incoherent.

DJ: If I managed to give my opponent a headache for choosing his next move at least my strategy has accomplished something... :-)))

DJ W26 and B27: I dare to assume that I can play for you again. W26 is pretty straightforward: in this way you can use right away your sente, which without doubt you have proficiencely studied during your holiday... ;-)))
(If you do not agree with my guess of course you can edit it!!!)

DJ B25: Yes, the drawback of this variation is that you will have sente. OTOH, I did'n want to choose a fighting variation because of those W low stones...
AFAIK, this was the only way of having a reasonable outcome in this game once you started the Nadare.
Who knows, if this kind of strategy is no good maybe my B7 at d5 was questionable in the first place...
P.S. I was forgetting: have a great 4th of July! (also to all you USA citizens out there!)

JoeSeki I think you chose wisely here. I was inviting the fight by taking the avalance joseki. My stones are poised wonderfully for a fight. Which is why I said earlier that if you were going to avoid a fight, you should have avoided the large avalanche all together and played Black 13 at 18.

JoeSeki W24: At least I end with sente, I think I'll spend some time thinking about what I'll do with it. I'm away for the July 4th weekend.

DJ W22 and B23: As per instructions of my opponent ... ;-)

DJ B21: A simple, easy to understand joseki move! ;-)



This is a copy of the living page "Teaching Game 67 Moves 21 Thru 30" at Sensei's Library.
(C) the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0.