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Share your thoughts here. 20 July 2002 SAS: Only hyphens (-), apostrophes ('), and spaces ( ) are stripped out of page titles. But I've come across cases where it would be useful to strip out slashes (/) and ampersands (&). For example, Tengen/Tianyuan Match and Toyota & Denso Cup - currently I can't do these titles as I want, and the links are awkward to type. Stripping parentheses would probably be useful too. Arno: Hm. I don't see much difference between slash and hyphen. Is Tengen-Tianyuan Match much worse than the version with a slash? I'm not a fan of using ampersands instead of "And" either. What do other's think?
July 13th, 2002 KarlKnechtel: Reading through the BeginnerExercises series has got me thinking... is there any way we could have new PageTypes for problem/solution collections? It'd be similar to a Path, but with each problem also linking to a correspondingly named solution (and maybe also discussion) page, and solutions linked back to the current problem, as well as the previous and next. Just tossing out an idea :) Arno: certainly possible. We would need standard names then, like "Solution" and "Discussion". As this is already best practice it seems feasable. How do other deshis feel about this? I just browsed through some BeginnerExercises - jumping from problem to problem is easy as they are part of a path, after looking at the solution one needs to hit "back" on the browser and then one can proceed to the next problem. Karl's suggestion would eliminate one click and might be more intuitive for people who visit SL for the first time. OTOH it adds yet another feature. Comments? Morten: We can already intelligently guess the next problem page. E.g. Next problem?. Sometimes it might be a good idea to add links to other (similar) problems as well - this will have to be done manually. The value of an extra feature seems small. Maybe we should try to suggest the above as best practice instead of changing the backend? July 11th, 2002 unkx80: Hi Arno, version 482 of the SandBox produced the following error message:
Also, trying to create a new totally empty page (i.e. one that contains no characters at all, including spaces) generates the error message:
Saving an existing page but to make it totally empty in the edit causes the page to be unchanged, but RecentChanges marked it with an (diff [-74]) entry (the Test page). May I ask, are these bugs? Thank you. Arno: you may ask :o) The SandBox problem is caused by the line with '************'. That line creates a list, however a rather deep sub-sub-sub-.....-sub-sub-list. There is an artificial depth limit (10-fold nesting) for sublists in GoWiki. I forgot that when this limit is exceeded rendering of the page stops. Rather it should just not display the line or give an error in that line only. I'm going to update this. About the "empty page" problem: that looks like a bug. Creating an empty page does not make sense and should cause a proper information message. Removing all content from an existing page is not useful either. At least some information should be there, e.g. "page deleted". Stay tuned. unkx80: I see. Thanks. =) Arno: list-nesting fixed: shows error message inside page (see Sandbox version 482). Creating/deleting pages with empty content: text "No content" is inserted instead of showing an error or warning message. June 17th, 2002 alter Pedro:Can we make HTML comments on the edited pages? I couldn't find anything about that, and i think it would be a good feature to have. What do you guys think? Arno: why would you need HTML comments (e.g. <!-- comment -->), i.e. data that doesn't appear on the final page? As for embedding HTML in the pages I quote from TextFormattingRules:
alter Pedro: my idea was to have notes about future stuff to put on the page and notes to editors -- which don't really need to appear on the final page Stefan: In that case, don't be shy and put it on the page anyway. I marked many a page with the equivalent of a post-it note, as a reminder for future work or ideas to further develop pages. Sometimes I got really lucky and somebody else did the work for me :-) KarlKnechtel: I've noticed several static pages on SL like PagesByDistance which represent compilations of SL statistics. Is there any way that such pages could be made to update automatically? Even if the functionality were not available to the general public, it would be nice to see such pages always current. It'd have to be done something like how MostPopular is done, I guess - in the code. unkx80: I quote from Arno from the PagesByDistance page itself:
This should explain why. =) June, 15th, 2002
Schmorp: Thanks for fixing the & problem. As for entities: the encoding of a page is totally independent of the characters. XML (and thus HTML, but also earlier SGML-based HTML versions) is always Unicode, regardless of the encoding of the page (encode something in UTF-7 and be astonished that browsers have no problems displaying the page ;). AFAICS, all newer browsers actually do display correctly, except netscape 4 (which is old) which only displays all characters in utf-8 mode, which is due to a font limitation under X11 (no idea about windows), and opera, which gives a shit to I18n. ns6, mozilla and ie all work fine. Test it yourself on June 14th, 2002
TimHunt: Arno, look at
SAS: Another example: Arno: Hm, let's see:
Does this work for most people? HolIgor: Looks correct with IE6 under Windows XP. Empty squares with IE5 under Windows 95, but I don't have Asian fonts installed on that computer. Question marks with Netscape under Linux. The worst case. ChessWhiz: All I see are some black blocks. (I'm using IE 5) rmsp: Looks great, Arno! I'm using OmniWeb 4.1b7 and IE 5.1 in Mac OS X. Looks ok in both. unkx80: Looks excellent on IE 6 on Win2k, but the Chinese Qi is the wrong word? Should be this 棋. Think I'll re-work the Chinese Go Terms page soon to convert it to a form where everybody finds it easy to edit. =) DaveSigaty: In win95 I only have support for Japanese and Korean installed so the Chinese does not display properly. Both IE 5.5 and Opera 6.03 display them the same. BTW, is there a way to input the characters in hex? JWPce gives the unicode that way.
June 11th, 2002 Schmorp: It's impossible to generate ampersands (&) correctly, as they aren't correctly quoted when editing. As a sidenote, it would be cool to be able to enter real, unquoted entities, so one can add kanji characters here and there ;) Arno: Fixed. About Kanji characters: this would mean that the page had to be encoded in UTF-8, no? Some browsers (especially older ones) do not understand that and would mess up the page I assume. Show me an HTML that has Chinese, Korean, and Japanese chars on it using entities and I'll think about it. June 7th, 2002 DaveSigaty: What do people think of Ongoing Game 3? It is set up as a significant departure from OG and OG2. I propose that it should be renamed and that the "Ongoing Game..." title should be kept for our "standard" rengo format (even if we indulge in a special event such as a New Years game from time to time :-). HolIgor: The format of that game is usual. That's just an attempt to introduce coordinates in the diagram. The attempt failed. And that's the question worth consideration. Is it possible to produce a special kind of goban for the games? Sometimes I miss the ability refer to a move as P17, for example. Arno: coordinates are now possible (note: I still prefer using letters instead of referring to positions, but we will see how it turns out). I think the OngoingGame pages should only be used for rengo games. The rules at the top don't make too much sense (or just repeat the current best practice). Maybe we should set up a page called OngoingGameRules?? I suggest changing OngoingGame3 according to the SL style that has eveolved over the past. StormCrow: The autogen'd diagrams that show up when you do a preview don't show the coordinates yet. June 5th, 2002 ChessWhiz: When browsing the TeachingGames, I noticed something that's rather interesting... some game comments run down the page, and others run up! For example, in TeachingGame44, the latest move is at the top of the page. However, in TeachingGame66, the latest move is at the bottom of the list of moves for that diagram! Do we need to set a standard and WikiMasterEdit the game pages so they all run the same direction? BenShoemaker: I would love to improve the way the comments are associated with the games. I broke the game up into boards with 10 moves each, but there are still quite a few (too many?) comments per board. Using 1 board per move seems like a lot of overhead though... It would be nice if there were a slick way to associate a comment with a particular move, and have the page automatically break the game into chunks based on the comments. At the very least, I would be happy to conform to a standard so that reading a teaching game page would be simplified. Arno: how could this standard look like? How would you associate a comment with a move on the board? May 31, 2002 Arno mentions mirroring problem on WikiNews DaveSigaty: Arno, maybe it is time to update SLSnapshot for people who want to download SL? MrKoala: And maybe you should also put a link on the first page saying "Don't use mirroring scripts. Mirroring is bad. Keep out. Go there." and put a link to the SLSnapshot page, shouldn't you ? Arno: new snapshot online. I don't think that it will keep people from mirroring though. The first snapshot didn't deter them either. Oddly enough people don't learn it: there's a user from Italy whose script got blocked about 10 times. You would think that he realizes by the 3rd time that he should change his behaviour. And then there is this clever guy from Germany who tried to mirror SL, but had a bug in his script and downloaded the FrontPage about 80000 (in words: eighty-thousand) times, before realizing his error. Caused a meager 600MB of traffic, which our host has to pay. Apr 25, 2002 Scartol: Is it possible to change the font of the text-edit box? Editing diagrams would be so much easier if I could make this box a monospace font. For that matter, doing all my SL business in a mono font would be ugly, but certainly more practical. Yet it doesn't appear to be an option in UserPreferences. How come? Arno: Netscape, Mozilla, and Opera let you set the font that should be used for the editing box. I assume that's true for IE as well. Whichever of my browser I tried they all show the edit box as monospace font (maybe I set their preferences?). Anyway, I have now inserted a fixed style: courier font. That should solve the problem (verified on Mozilla & Opera). About your other problem:
MetaDiscussion currently has more than 32K text. Maybe your browser does not allow more text in a single textarea? I know that Bill reported problems with pages > 64K, of which there is only one: AtariGoAsATeachingMethod Apr 23, 2002 TakeNGive: I am perpetually perplexed about family names and given names, and not just when looking at Asian names (one successful American actor is named Phillip Michael Thomas, for example). Someone mentioned a way to make this clear -- simply listing the family name in ALL CAPS. Unless someone objects, I'd like to start arranging the NamesInGo page with family names capitalized, maybe early next month. Feedback? Also, what shall we do with names that properly could be listed in more than one place? Sunghwa Hong could go under Canada or Korea; Janice Kim could go under USA or Korea; Michael Redmond could go under Japan or USA; Go Seigen could go under China or Japan. Advice? MrKoala: I suppose it should be OK to put the names that can be listed in all the places they can be listed in, since they're going to be linked to the proper pages. Maybe put a skillful header explaining why some names are in different places. Maybe also add information about why a name is in the "Japan" section by adding the role this (wo)man hs played in the country. About the ALL CAPS thing, it is common use to put the family names in all caps. Though it is also common use to put the given name before the family name (except in Japan, where the family name preceeds the given name, e.g. "Shind?Hikaru") and should normally be enough. Another thing to take in account is that transcription of japanese words is usually lower case for genuine japanese words (hiragana syllabs) and upper case for (the numerous) foreign words (katakana syllabs), so it might lead to misinterpretation. But for the sake of comprehension, it might be a good idea anyway. Apr 21, 2002 Arno: About three months ago, we introduced that super-linebreak (4x%) which forces text below a diagram and the horizontal ruler (4x-) lost the ability to force text below a diagram. After three months and some checks, I'm convinced that we should partially undo this. I.e. keep the super-linebreak, but the horizontal ruler should have the ability to force text below a diagram again. I found no case where this might cause problems. Seeing 4x% in front of every 4x- just does not make sense. Opinions? (If there is no outcry I will change the behaviour accordingly). Dieter: Hello Vienna. Here Brussels. These are the votes from the Belgian jury. We approve. TakeNGive looks around Seattle and sees no objections. Apr 8, 2002 BenShoemaker I'm sometimes using IE6 or IE5.5 and had problems with "Preview". After modifying a page, clicking "Preview" shows me what my changes will look like. Great. But when I click "Back", it resets to the original content of the page. Instead of "Preview", I now use "Save". However, the other day I created a page, and mistakenly tried to change the Title (oops!) which created an error when I clicked "Save" and when I clicked "Back" to fix it, all my work was gone! Is there something I can change in my IE configuration that will fix this situation? I will try to take more care in the future, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Arno: I just tried with IE6 and can't reproduce this behaviour. Strange. I'm not sure what could cause this. Does anyone have an idea? If possible, I would like to fix this behaviour. Arno (20 Apr): I have redone "Preview" - you should no longer experience any problems. Mar 8, 2002 Gorobei: What am I doing wrong? I created a page named GradedGoProblemsForBeginners, editing the title to add spaces between the words, saved, but no spaces. Dieter: I think you didn't adjust the pagetitle in the appropriate box. Maybe you edited the title in the textbox. I adjusted it now for you. Arno: no, actually it was a bug that affected non-admins. Thanks for pointing it out, Gorobei. I have fixed it. Gorobei: ah, cool! I thought I was going insane. Is there any philosophical/Wiki reason why pages become unretitlable after the first edit? I've created a few badly titled pages in the last couple of days. Arno: sort of. I don't want to overload the edit page. Imagine your first visit to this wiki and the edit page sports some 20 option fields. Not very encouraging, or is it? Every text box or option more discourages people to change things (actually, I was not too happy about the three choice boxes on the right hand side, but I learned to live with them). I think that adjusting the page title is an "advanced" feature. Currently there are three user classes for SL: admins (Morten and me), librarians (another handful of people - not allowed to delete or lock pages), and the rest (not allowed to rename pages, revive old versions, or adjust page titles). I agree that adjusting page titles might be an innocuous feature regular users would like to use as well. Maybe I add a setting to user preferences where you can set your experience level - if you set it to "experienced" then you are allowed to adjust page titles or other innocuous features. Or, maybe you advance to "experienced" after a certain number of edits or creation of new pages? ;o) (just kidding) Jan 6, 2002 - 16:05 GMT +1 Jan de Wit: When I tried to add a bookmark I got a page saying:
WikiFatalError?
Invalid admin password.
Please go back and correct it.
But as I type this, Arno has fixed it already!! Now I've become an admin?? Arno: you're no longer an admin. Sorry Jan :o) Silly me, doesn't know the difference between '==' and '='. Jan: That's what you get for using an untyped language... Anyway, thanks for my fifteen minutes of fame :-) Jan 6, 2002 - 13:05 GMT +1 Jan De Wit: Preview seems to work OK for me (IE 5.5 on Win'98). Great work, Arno! Tomorrow I'll try it out on Netscape 4.78 on Solaris... It works! By the way, on the editing page, the background color differs slightly from the color of the box around the Save, Cancel and Preview buttons. I noticed it on Win'98 too but ascribed it to the dirtyness of my monitor. It's not very important, but it not esthetically pleasing either :-) Arno: I am most ashamed for providing you with a less than excellent experience. I shall wallow in pity until this unpleasing sight has been exterminated. Jan. 5, '02 BillSpight: Again, I was unable to edit this page with Netscape. I know that, in a sense, that is Netscape's problem, but it still bugs me. unkx80: I have used Netscape 6.2.1 on Windows 2000 to add this line. No problems, though. Bill: I'm stuck with 4.7.2 by my ISP. :-( Jan 4, 2002 - 22:45 GMT+1 Jan De Wit: Minor feature request: could the Minor Edit checkbox be moved closer to the Save button, please? I find myself scrolling up and down the editing page rather a lot. And logically related elements should be IMHO be grouped together. TakeNGive seconds Jan's motion. Arno: done. Dec 28, 2001 - 16:00 GMT+8 unkx80: Hi Arno and Morten, when I try to view some of the old pages (i.e. those pages whose version aren't the most current), I get an error message "Image file missing!". Examples are phpwiki:?PGB131:v4, phpwiki:?NamelessTesuji:v7 and phpwiki:?BigQuestionMarkProblem8:v17. Can you please fix this? Thank you. I hope I am not asking too much, but I guess it would be nice if there is some feature in SL that can detect incorrectly formatted diagrams and inform the contributor as he/she edits pages in SL. :-) ArnoHollosi: I know about that. Actually, it happened by accident. The image files are created when you save a page. To make sure that the old diagrams don't fill up our hard disk the program removes all diagrams no longer referenced by current pages. Thus archive pages contain diagrams which are no longer on the disk. In that case the GoWiki engine gives you this error and prints the diagram as text. I'm not fond of stroing all images ever created on SL. I try to think of something. Maybe I'll create those missing images 'on the fly'. Give me some time. unkx80: Sure, and thanks again. :-) Arno: OnTheFlyDiagrams added. This should solve your archive page problem. Added "Preview" too - does this work on all browsers? After you use preview you have to use the back button and save the page. Either Dieter or Stefan once reported that IE does reset the content of the text area. This would of course be rather bad. unkx80: Right now both features works for me. Thank you again, Arno. :-) Dec 19, 2001 - 15:44 GMT+1 Dieter: I edited BeginnerStudySection and was confronted with an old annoyance: the only way to prevent text from appearing next to the last diagram is by entering four - symbols. The problem is that maybe you are using those line symbols to indicate a new section in the page while your text belongs to the same section as the diagram. Stefan obviously entered some % symbols to work around this problem, but with screen fitting pages like SL this doesn't work. So, I would like to have another way to end diagram text. Jan. 5, '02 BillSpight: It strikes me that when you make a new paragraph with two carriage returns, comme sa, the new paragraph should be positioned below any preceding diagram. You can use the %s for a new line without regard to the diagram. Is that doable? Thanks. :-)
Dec 3, 2001 - 15:09 GMT+1
Stefan: Arno, Morten - NewFeatureRequest?. Is it possible to define an alias for an URL? e.g. "JansteenSite?" for the current Arno: I'm not in favour of such a feature. It is not intuitive, i.e. if you don't read about it you wouldn't think of it (yes, I know that we have features like that already [1] - something I regret). How often would you use something like this? How many websites (I'm talking about the big ones) do really move? Some of them move maybe once every 5 years. Therefore, if sometime in the future one of the big sites moves and it becomes too much work to correct the links manually, I will do a search&replace directly in the database. I don't see the need for such a feature right now. (Me arguing against a new feature again :o) Stefan: If you can do such a mass search/replace directly in the database upon request, than that one is covered. So consider this my NewFeatureRequestWithdrawal?. :-) [1] I guess you are referring to footnodes[2]. I think they are not widely used yet. If you'd rather abolish that feature but are afraid it'll be too much work to keep the pages consistent, I'm ready for some library overtime. --Dieter [2] Actually not :o) A feature I really regret is the possibility to name links which allow something like this[4] or that[5] or something like DieterVerhofstadt - I'm a hardcore purist[3], I know :o) --Arno [3] Which reminds me of the quote "Oh, how I hate language puritans ! They never listen to what you say." - "Purists, not puritans." --Dieter [4] Why do you hate it? Personally I like the flexibility and creativity it gives me to write nicely flowing sentences. (--Stefan) [5] I simply love this feature! And I use it a lot while I am in SL. :-) --unkx80 [5.a] Yeah, what he said. And him too. --TakeNGive Perhaps adding a 'title' attribute to Wiki links, showing what the target is, would reduce the problem of uninformative or misleading link names. --Matthew Woodcraft Nov. 1, 2001 - 13:50 PST Why can't I edit AtariGoAsATeachingMethod? 11.43 It is OK for me. I think this depends on the browser you use. It is an edit line after all and the page is huge. Some people would just set a limit for the number of symbols and will never allow you to exceed it for safety reasons. This is very popular among amateur programists. Thanks for the tip. :-) Those darn amateur programmers at Netscape! ;-) Microsoft Internet Explorer worked. How depressing! --Bill
October 31, 2001 - 16:23 GMT+1
--Stefan: You make a good point about the elegant prinicple of linking to a page title, Arno, and if following Yi Ch'ang-ho will get you somewhere, AND it will appear as the page title, we have everything we need without $T. October 31, 2001 Morten: (Dave, you are right - the 'will' in my message was a hypothetical will.) If the page title markup is only used for these cases, in practice it will always be possible to use the page title to link to that page. "Yi Ch'ang-ho", "YiChangHo", "YiChAngHo" and "y i cha-n'gh'o'" will all link to the page called YiChangHo, where e.g. a $T markup make sure that the displayed title is Yi Ch'ang-Ho. The only problems will occur if the page 'foo' has a markup '$T bar', where a later link [!bar] will not link to the page. This we can lock out by ignoring a 'manual' page title which doesn't 'fit' the real page title. (I.e. if the $T defined title, with spaces and '- removed does not fit the real page title, we ignore it). Anyway, I am in the middle of moving from France to the UK; so, like most of the 'real' work on SL, it will be Arno deciding & doing it ;^) October 31, 2001 ArnoHollosi: it's already possible to have single-quotationmarks in links, e.g. Sensei's Library - we will add "-" too, so that you can use that in links as well (I guess it won't hurt). As for the title: having a different title can be confusing, at least for people who are used to other wikis. The idea that the page title is the one you use to link to the page is an essential feature of wiki. I'm not sure I'd like to break that up by introducing a title markup. We could go for the middle road: the page gets the title from its first "creation link", i.e. if I link to Yi Ch'ang-ho that's the page title. Later, any of the following will link to the same page (but always show "Yi Ch'ang-ho" as title): YiChangHo, YiChAngHo, y i cha-ngh''o' etc. I.e. all "'", "-", and spaces are removed, case insensitive matching for name. How about that?
2001-10-15 I find the lack intimidating. Currently it would be hard to implement a preview. This is true especially for the diagrams. I will put it on my todo list, but won't give it high priority. Just use "save" as your preview. At least this is what I do. Usually I edit/save pages up to three times, before I leave them like they are. --ArnoHollosi My memory could be wrong, but I think we actually consciously decided against a preview to make page edits quicker - less buttons to click/confirm. In conjunction with the 'revive' link, you can always 'undo' later. --MortenPahle What do you mean by the 'revive' link Morten? --DaveSigaty If you open a page for editing, there is a 'revive' link at the bottom left which revives the old version of the page. It's a bit dangerous, because it can seriously mess up the wiki, but as a sort of 'I didn't want to write any of this' or an 'oops', it'll work. Try it out in the SandBox. --Morten I guess one of the arguments for turning the preview option down, is that it would give a false feeling of safety to the person editing. Making him save his edits prevents the loss, caused by a sudden connection loss, and also it is better in mitigating the risk of concurrent edits. --Dieter Usually I do not bother to preview (like now :-)). But when I do want a preview, I use Notepad in Windows. No problemo. --BillSpight Oh, absolutely. And when I'm really in a hurry, I read the hexadecimal code. Black stone: 58; White stone: 4F; star point: 2C. See ? It's easy. #:-7 --Dieter 10/10/2001 When a page is a recursive alias to itself, or references any such page, it can't be edited. Try A3, for example. When this is fixed I'd like to test A1->A2->A3->A1 :-) --jvt
Actually, you can edit it. It just takes some URL editing.
I know. That's how I made these test pages. The weird thing is: it was impossible to change them (there was always a message about someone else having modified the page before me). Actually this happened because of the 'Automatic' setting of Internet Explorer! Definitely a dangerous setting. --jvt Actually, I was thinking about denying people to create two step aliases (a1->a2->a3), i.e. only direct aliases would be allowed (a1->a2). Do we need multi-step aliasing? Considering the implications on future database layouts it seems an unnecessary obstacle. For casual visitors a1->a2->a3 is the same as a1->a3 anyway. I have disabled multi-step aliases now. --Arno 09/10/01 On other Wikis, they often have several indexes - sort of various contents pages which give various different ways of 'entering' the wiki. What are your thoughts on Wiki Indexes? 6 oct 2001 BIIIG improvement, that alias option. Footnodes also warmly welcomed. One question: suppose someone thinks initiative is a synonym for sente and creates an alias. Later someone else disagrees, for some reason, and wants to create a separate initiative? page with references to sente. Can we undo aliases ?
I think yes. --unkx80 unkx80 is right. Just edit the page and set its pagetype to something other than 'Alias'. Aliases are stored and treated just like regular pages with the exception that they fetch their content from the page they are referring to. The only drawback right now is that if you link to FarmersHat (which is an alias for TheFarmersHat) from e.g. SandBox, then SandBox will not be shown as referring link in TheFarmersHat. I will correct this in the future, but for now aliases are good enough. --ArnoHollosi
Question
Is there a file for typesetting go diagrams in LaTeX ?
Please reply here or on my wiki (
There are several. I saw one once which took input as ascii diagrams rather like the ones used here, but it's more usual to take input as sgf. See -- Matthew Woodcraft DaveSigaty: Morton, Arno - help! I posted this same message on OngoingGame. I redid/reduced the archive pages (they are sitting at the bottom of OngoingOneMovesOnetoTen). But I did not know whether there would be any problem if I deleted the path aready on OngoingGame and substituted another. Is it that easy? The new pages are not yet set as path pages. If you could move them or let me know that it is OK, I will make sure that we don't lose any new analysis added on the old pages over the next few days. Paths are just another way of linking to pages. If you remove the path links in OnGoingGame then you do just that: you remove the links to the pages. The pages themselves are not affected. So there is no problem when you delete the old and add the new links. --ArnoHollosi I noticed that there wasn't much flexibility when listing the pages in a path. (for example you can have some random words point to a subject) Is this a necessary parsing evil? Perhaps it could get tacked waaaay down on the wish list? Aside from those gripes, SL is wooonderful. A great learning tool. --FCS Path's function by marking links with "[>". The program logic then parses the page and generates the path in the order the pages appear on the page. You don't have to put the links into alist or whatever. So, what else would you like to see? --ArnoHollosi
I created the SnowhiteInTheDarkWoods page just by writing You could also have done the same just by editing the URL location in your browser to a non-existing page. It implies that if someone wants, they can through a script create many new SL pages without any content. However, unless something is actually written in them and saved, the page is not actually created or added to the archive, so there is no real danger there. --Morten Well, I could easily prevent this behaviour. Actually I think it is *very* bad, because once the page drops off RecentChanges, it won't be linked from anywhere and people will only find it through the search function. Which means most people will never visit the page again. I don't encourage this type of creating pages at all. Think of the over 1000 pages here all being created like this. And none of them linked. --Arno When I read about this I thought it was a nice capability which I did not know about previously. The reason I thought it sounded nice is that I recently lost some work when I found myself editing a page at the same time as another user. Contrary to expectation, in Internet Explorer 5.5 on Windows you do not recover your work if you hit the back button to return to the edit page. IE automatically refreshes the page and you end up editing the new page. So I thought that the ability to create unlinked pages as a first step would help when initially creating large(r) pages - with the minor edit box I can keep them off Recent Changes until I am ready. I can see the point about having a lot of unlinked pages lying around though. Is it possible to make an automatically generated 'Unlinked Pages' page similar to UndefinedPages? --DaveSigaty Ouch. Sorry to hear about that. I have now changed the "concurrent updates" page to include the text of your changes. This should solve your problem on IE. There are other ways to prevent this problem as well:
About "Unlinked pages": yes, it would be possible, but it is quite expensive to compute with the current database schema. I look out for these pages every now and then. Right now there are not too many of them. --ArnoHollosi
For your first suggestion, I totally agree - just try going to I would vote for the second suggestion. :-) --unkx80 I think the warning could give a lot of false positives. I frequently hit the edit button in order to copy something from one page that I am going to use on another. Additionally (maybe more often :-) hit 'edit' in order to add something to a page and then decide it really isn't worth it or doesn't really fit the discussion or the page. The 'cancel' button gets a workout on my machine but also I often just hit the back button. I don't think that you can pick up the latter, right? --DaveSigaty I didn't think of that... but it's only 15 minutes, right? :-) --unkx80 It seems that the number of browsers this is a problem for is limited - most browsers nowadays do remember the text in the box if you press 'back'. (I thought that even on IE it was a user-selectable option) Also, concurrent edits don't happen that often that it's worth bothering users everytime they edit a page. Howabout just changing the 'Page has already been edited by someone else' page to also include the text (or maybe just a diff) that the user just wrote but couldn't save? That way everyone can copy it, even without using the 'back' button. --Morten I was using IE 5, then IE 5.5, and now IE 6, and I don't have this problem. :-) On closer inspection I guess when you go to menu: Tools > Internet Options..., under the General tab, under the Temporary Internet Files box you click on the Settings... button (this brings up another dialog box) you have Every visit to the page selected. Am I right? If so, I think changing the option to Automatic does the trick. Then if you need to be absoulte sure of having the latest version of the page just hit the Refresh button. Hope this helps. :-) --unkx80 Actually that is what I thought would be the behavior because my browser setting is on "Automatic"! And usually this seems to be the case - the browser does not reload the page. However, most of the time the page hasn't been edited in the mean time. The one case that I am sure someone else edited it, the page was reloaded. I do not know how IE's "Automatic" setting works but if you read the help on it, it seems to adjust itself based on experience. Does it somehow test the pages in order to gain that experience? I have no idea. In any case it happened to me once. I think the idea of putting the diff on the warning page sounds like a nice bit of added insurance. Actually SL is the one site I feel like having my browser set to "Every time" on so that when I go back to Recent Changes I know that I am absolutely up to date :-) --DaveSigaty Then Dave, I'm sorry, I don't know exactly how it works either. But I'll agree that the warning page will still be useful. :-) --unkx80 I have done a WikiMasterEdit of this page and stored the old page in OldGuineaPigsFeedBack. Unsolved issues and recent postings remained here. Non-technical stuff moved back to MetaDiscussion. --DieterVerhofstadt Arno: 2002-01-06: shortened GuineaPigsFeedback yet again. Moved some discussion to SGF at SL Discussion, deleted other stuff. Previous version: version204, diff This is a copy of the living page "Guinea Pigs Feedback" at Sensei's Library. (C) the Authors, published under the OpenContent License V1.0. |