Forum for About The Value of the First Move

Perfect play [#1618]

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SiouxDenim: Perfect play (2008-11-10 01:38) [#5256]

This page says perfect play results in a win or draw. It's unlikely, but it could be that even with best play, Go on a 19x19 board is a loss for the first player. SiouxDenim

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fractic: Re: Perfect play (2008-11-10 01:43) [#5257]

This is only due to komi. If there was no komi then Black can allways at least force a draw. The argument is called strategy stealing. Suppose white would have a way to win for sure. Black could then pass on his first move and then apply the perfect strategy. So no such strategy can exist. Therefor Black can allways get a draw or better without komi.

SiouxDenim: Re: Perfect play (2008-11-10 12:11) [#5260]

Strategy stealing only applies if it is impossible to make a move that makes things worse for you than they were before you moved. This applies in Hex, it doesn't in Go.

HermanHiddema: Re: Perfect play (2008-11-10 12:23) [#5261]

No, strategy stealing also works if it is possible to make a move that cannot make the situation worse.

In go: if the value of the first move is negative (black loses if he plays first), then passing must be worth at least 0 points.

As fractic explained: In a no komi game, if the second player has a winning strategy, black should pass on his first move and follow that strategy. (Similarly, white should then pass because he wants to follow that strategy as well, and thus the game will end in a tie). Note that strategy stealing does indeed not apply in no pass go.

 
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