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Saurus Soldiers, please leave a new suggestion for every move. Even if you agree with the move given by the previous soldier, leave a new suggestion too. Captains may not choose their own moves, so choices are important!!!
: Suggestions
jvloenen decides to resign The enthusiasm (both teams) is too low to continue. As black is ahead, we resign.
q8 (a) doesn't work, so it is too early to choose between the cut at q8 and r9. The same holds for O5 and P6. Maybe we should probe at or around M4 first. If black decides to try to capture, we can fight by forcing at O5 and O6.
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses Q8(a). JoelR is right. Both R16 (b) and (c) are big moves, they feel gote however, as the followup seems too small now. Maybe later. We're still behind. If we follow black we're still behind at the end of the game. So let's try something and play Q8 (a). It may not do much locally, maybe it's gonna help us to reduce around M4 later. Let's find out. I don't understand G3 (d), black probably plays F4. Or am I missing something?
: Suggestions
tapir chooses S3(a). Defend first. I honestly don't see how Black S3 lets us live Joel, the corner looks plain dead to me. I like the idea of Q8 (b), but think we have to defend first, if we had a definite way to ascertain a living corner in sente by playing the moves around Q8 or O5 it might be better, but then there would be no funny business left and little hope for us to come back.
JoelR: My reads on not defending at s3. Is there a tesuji I overlooked?
(Dieter: I did not want to intervene, but now you're asking specifically, I thought that below diagrams indeed lead to life, but this one here is not ko: it's death, after Black defends below .)
Tapir: So embarassing, I chose the right move for the wrong reason. I didn't really read further ... very bad habit.
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses R2 (a). As O5 (b) doesn't work, we better keep it in reserve in case we get a stone around M4 or Q8/R8. S6 (c) doesn't seem to do much damage to black I as far as I can see. After S6 we still have defend at R2, so better play R2 now.
JoelR suggested to resign. As we are with three soldiers, I will resign if at least two soldiers suggest to resign on the same move.
: Suggestions
Welcome to the team ZeroWave! We didn't play yet because there was nothing to choose with only one suggestion. It is taking too long however, so I play now and hope the game will continue somewhat faster. Otherwise we better stop this game (by resigning of course).
jvloenen chooses (a). Of all suggestions given it is the best play by far. ;-) With free play I had played another move however, especially after the bad move (which is almost a wasted move as it doesn't give us eye-shape or even an extra liberty).
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses R5 (a). Only move (from the moves suggested). What will happen if black plays R2 now?
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses C3 (c). All suggestions are gote, so we play the biggest point.
JoelR: I guess can be treated as sente, because
Tapir: Although I agree with the analysis. The in this diagram would have been a clearer way to gain sente while reducing the size of a black move in the corner. At least that's the move I would have played. Probably doesn't make much difference.
: Suggestions
Only two suggestions? Ok, let's play S16 (a). A move in this corner is what we need indeed. If we play the very large and honte move C3 (b), black will play S17 and will be 15 points ahead. We need to play a sente move in this corner before returning to C3, after which black will be ahead by about 5 points.
If this move isn't sente, a mutual reduction will follow. As the black area is larger than ours, we should welcome this.
JoelR, en were played like ko threats, as we needed a (non-suggested) move in the upper corner. I think is better on P9, because our connection at Q5 is more severe now.
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses P9 (a). There is nothing to gain here. We need to play a large sente move, before returning answering (as we need both moves to make a chance in this game). It wasn't suggested at move 76, so we played a sentish move elsewhere. A local continuation here doesn't make much sense, we're just wasting ko threats.
: Suggestions
BobWhoosta: Much as it pains me, it seems a is the biggest point. Letting black play there is serious points, and as of the last move or so we've entered the beginnings of yose. Does anyone have anything to say about my count, or what we can do to try and turn things around if I'm right???
dave: E2 (b).
JoelR: O9 (c). I think we are behind. Jvloenen has rejected N9 and O10, but I do not think we can invade the right side and live.
jvloenen chooses O9(c). No suggestion by schEkkEr, so it's time to move. BobWhoosta counted correct I think. And C3(a) is probably the correct honte point. If we play a and black plays S17 or something like that, we're at least 15 points behind. So we can play calm and loose by 10-20 points. Or we can try something (and probably we have to resign within 10 moves or so, but at least we've tried!). I don't understand E2(b), it just forces black to get E3. Or am I missing something obvious? So let's play O9 and see what happens (remember, we need to make things complicated now).
JoelR: Assuming both sides take the sente moves below, b looks two points better for White. If we take b and Black takes a, what happens? Can they live? Can we damage much?
BobWhoosta: Counting and stragetical things.
I count Black at between 90 and 100 points, and white between 85 and 90 points. With Komi that puts white just a hair behind, however black has sente, and further D2 is a large sente point. So as far as I see it, we're about 10 points behind. We've got a big sente move in the top right, however afterwards we probably can't even think about living in black's center area. It may come down to whether we can do that or not, and as it stands this already looks difficult...
What say you??
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses F6 (a). Welcome to the team BobWhoosta! We need to answer locally. With G6 (b) our shape would be worse, so F6 it is. For M9 (c) and N9 (d), if these moves are sente, black solidifies his territory. The space below these moves is of very little value as both sides cannot create territory here (around M6). So if we have a good game after the next black move, we better force from a side were our forcing moves gives us points in return. And if we're clearly behind and decide to invade we better not have forced with M9 or N9!
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses H6 (a). H4 (b) doesn't work well, black plays H6 and captures either H6 or J5. If we enter the lower side by forcing at G4, black takes the corner. Tenuki seems a good idea, as H6 is very submissive. O10 (c) is too deep however: there is no way out (black can answer at N9 for instance) and not enough room to live.
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses E11 (b). K12 (a) tries to capture an important stone, and to me the peep doesn't seem to accomplish much. F10 (c) tries to capture one stone. It is true we have invested a lot of stones and are strong, so why not capture both stones? D11 (d) is a looser move, and I don't see how it helps on the side.
eozberk, please suggest something else even if you support a suggestion given before.
: Suggestions
Abydos1: Black at a and we capture 3 stones while giving away the entire center.
JoelR: I thought after abcd we secured the upper left, and leave Black's stones struggling. But I like Abydos's follow up, below .
tapir chooses F12(b). Tough choice. Basically I don't like to force Black to extend by playing at F10 (a) now. And I would extend there as Black, also if Black tenukies with , I would capture (because it makes a big center territory in sente.) There is a diagram where Abydos commented at and we are in trouble, but we have a similar line just with forcing at F10 first given by joelr. However, if Black decides to give us the top stones back, we don't want to strengthen them inside. (Our five stones on the top are not weak, because Black is lacking liberties.)
The general idea is, to either take back on the top left while Black still isn't alive inside or letting him capture two stones and take a big center. However, it pretty complicated for me as well so I may be wrong.
: Suggestions
tapir chooses G12(a). Sacrificing the stone in gote is not enough and there would have been other territorial moves of at least this size on the board (which may even be sente). It is a cutting stone and should not be thrown away too easily, and even if we sacrifice later, Black will now need a stone more on balance to capture. If Black answers at b, I believe this is a fight we can well afford and where Black survival is far from secure. Forcing Black to make a ponnuki with c is not achieving anything as Black can easily live on the inside with the strength of the ponnuki or even if white tries to rescue c, push once, atari, connect... White ends with two cutting points and is unable to defend both.
: Suggestions
tapir chooses H10(b). Takeo Kajiwara says, we should listen our stones. I feel like I hear G11 crying, it tries to do something but fails so alone. H10 is the only move (even if we end up screwed in the upcoming fight) it makes G11 feel important as only a cutting stone can, G12 forces Black to connect, J14 may well be sente, but a sente which does not help us, but Black in the fight.
: Suggestions
tapir chooses G11 (b). I don't know how long we will last in this fight with only two active players making proposals. F11 forces black to strengthen himself which is what Black wants to do anyway - without really making territory in the process. This leaves G11, which likely leads to a very violent fight. I would have been reluctant to start it right now, but now there is no way back. (+ I like it more the longer I look at it.)
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses L9 (a). We attach to create possibilities. We don't need to settle our stones anymore I think. Attacking is a good idea however. E10 (b) is too small I think. It just protects some territory around C8. We need to play more active after black got 53. M6 (c) doesn't do much. It is no severe attack on the lower side. And if black wants to close with a move around M6, we can play Q5.
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses J7 (c). Help both and , and prepare for cutting of and making a deep invasion to the right, which seems miai. G8 (a) doesn't help our stones much, nor does it take or destroy territory. It will turn out to be dame later on, or (if we get E9 for instance) the territory will be too small for a gote move. L10 (b) seems to be too slow. After the 52/53 exchange our territory around F14 is gone, so we need to be more aggressive and destroy more of black's territory. For a deeper invasion, we better prepare first.
: Suggestions
jvloenen chooses J5(b). J8(b) makes a heavy group. We do not know if we want to run, to makes eyes or to sacrifice yet, so we better do not add stones to this group. H6(a) feels better, but that's too easy for black. So J5 it is, although it is better to not attach a stone. (J6 would be better.)
: Suggestions
Tapir chooses F5 (a) G13 c tries too hard making territory where we basically forced the opponent to walk into our moyo. Any fight here, even if successful in fencing in some territory will weaken our important J10 stone. L5 b is an invasion not a reduction as is any stone beyond the stone line (which isn't linked back). With no good way to make eyes i believe it is an overplay (I would expect Black to play a keima cutting us off, and complicated fight next which we could not afford to lose). The leaves a it works together with J10, although I am not sure that it achieves much. I am surprised that nobody considered calmer moves according to the principle of mutual damage by walking in further or R16 which was considered sente last move.
: Suggestions
Tapir chooses J10 (a) O5 will lead to a weak and running center group, i.e. solidified black territory and gently reduced white prospects in the upper left. Black will follow when we run there. R16(c) is huge, but I am not sure that it is necessarily sente when two big frameworks are at stake in the center, Black can not settle the corner in sente anyway, so it will likely remain as sente for us - as our trouble was the huge black prospects not the amount of territory black has, I choose J10(a).
: Suggestions
Tapir chooses (a) Only move, indeed. Black says they want to create aji, but actually they may be removing aji. (Black at not available anymore and White anyway not to capture the single stone in gote anytime soon.)
Suggestions
Abydos1 chooses F16 (a). Since tapir & jvloenen seem to still be away I'll go ahead and finish up the corner here. Connecting is the only option; c is too early, we have to defend the double atari first and the aji of black c is not that bad right now (try reading it out for several moves). b doesn't work because black can escape with the double atari and pulling out c.
Suggestions
jvloenen chooses D15 (a). A local move is necessary and E16 (b), giving a ponnuki, is too easy for black.
btw. this is my last move for the next three weeks.
Possible continuation
Suggestions
jvloenen chooses B15 (a). Only move.
Suggestions
jvloenen chooses F18 (a). F17 (b) feels a little slack, as we're strong around K17. J10(c) is a very big move. Much bigger than S15 (suggested at move 38). It is not tenuki time yet however, as the loss in the corner would be tremendous.
Suggestions
tapir chooses E17 (a). Only move. (I guess the keima F17 would have been an alternative, but as we decided the way to go at the last move already, we can as well stick to it.)
Suggestions
jvloenen chooses C16 (a). D17 (b) builds a wall on the wrong side as Dave pointed out. S15 (c) is interesting. I never though about this move. It seems to work, although we need to be carefull not to play a variation getting a few extra points which end with gote for us. Currently the sente value of S15 seems smaller than the black continuation in the corner (if we play S15, black will ignore and play C16), so C16 it is.
Suggestions
tapir chooses J15 (a). No real alternatives, so no need to wait for more proposals and jvloenen to decide. Capturing directly may be considered as alternative in other circumstances.
eozberk: Hello everyone, I just joined your team, I think it will be fun.
Suggestions
jvloenen chooses C10 (a). I think the R4 corner is alive, so both S3 (c) and S5 (d) are too slow. Therefore we play in the largest open space. I agree the position in relation to C6 is (too) low. This move in relation to D16 is fine though. D13 (b) is not good here. This is a moyo based move (the side is still open at C11 and it doesn't help the corner either). C16 (e) is a good move too. If we want to invade or reduce around tenger later on, I like a white stone on the left side. Therefore I choose a, not e. Q5 (f) is a move we like to play soon. It seems sentish for us (black will not answer immediately, will play other sente moves first). As black Q5 isn't sente either, I think we can play a now, and hopefully f later on. O5 (k) is too greedy, it will help black. We better use the threat to cut to connect f in sente.
Suggestions
jvloenen chooses Q4 (c). P2 (a) aiming to connect the useless Q6 stone (black gets the corner of will fix his shape on the lower side) doesn't make sense to me. If P2 it must be followed by O3 or O2. Both are failures for us. Q5 (b) a ko? The ko has no follow-up, so black has enough threats (pushing at O17, a ponnuki at K15). So we better connect now, and treat connecting the Q6 stone and capturing the P3 stone as miai.
Suggestions
jvloenen chooses Q3 (b).O5 (a), P5 (c), Q4 (d) and R5 (e) all force black to fix the cutting point (for instance at O3, Q3, N3 and Q3). Next I don't see a good follow-up move, we will be left with just a bunch of stones. So I choose b to get some eye-space. We will be sealed in the corner however -which isn't good- and we cannot sacrifice the corner stones anymore.
I wonder why no one suggested cutting at Q3 now? With the block against the push at Q4, and the possibility to capture in a ladder we would get nice forcing moves to settle our group and get out into the black influence (if black captures the cutting stones, we extend first to get the forcing move at O5 and get forcing moves at Q3 and P2 which would be good. If black plays Q3 we capture and leave the cornerstones for aji).
Suggestions
jvloenen chooses Q6 (d). I agree with your analysis. P5 (a) creates a solid group aiming at the pincer. With black 23 in place it's more like creating a heavy group however. Q3 (b) will be followed by P5, Q4 and probably P2 (black has nothing to fear on the outside). We'll have a sealed group, and maybe even a sealed dead group. I never thought about O3 (c). Very interesting at first sight, aiming at cutting points. Black will probably push through at Q4 and P5, Q3, N4 will follow. If black next play around N6, it looks like we have an one-eye group. So Q6 it is, aiming at the other suggestions later on.
Suggestions
jvloenen chooses P4 (a).We're under heavy attack, so tenuki is not an option now (unless we think we cannot live of course). K14 (d) is just too small. Q2 (b) feels too passive. The other options are all joseki. P4 is the most flexible move, creating the most cutting points. (We're under attack so cutting points are fine. We will sacrifice to get sabaki if needed).
Suggestions